Coolant temperatures while towing

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Road Trip

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Thanks for your nuggets of knowledge! I definitely think the clutch fan will make a difference but want to avoid that if possible cause the dual electric fan coversion probably ran the previous owner $300-$400.

You know, a lot of vehicle owners out there have been sold on the concept of electric fans
by countless magazine articles.

One possible solution to your situation is to use the best bits of factory cooling available
sourced out of the local Treasure Yard, and then help offset the cost of doing so by selling
your used twin fan setup online once removed from service?

I know this seems like a lot of time & effort to properly sort out your cooling system,
but subjecting your engine oil, piston rings, valves, and transmission fluid to the higher
end of the 210-260 range you quoted from the owner's manual is not a good long term
plan. (I seem to remember reading that at a certain point, for every 10°F rise in ATF temps
the useful life of that same fluid was cut in half?)

Not to mention that the higher the cylinder head temps, the sooner the engine will start to
ping & knock, which in turn causes the computer to pull timing out, both lowering power
output & worsening your MPG.

I just looked at the photo of your fan setup, and those 2 fans mounted on a flat surface
that close to the radiator causes sub-optimal air flow through the radiator down the highway.

Those fans are being forced to work uphill at all times. Contrary to all the ink that's been
spilled in the mags over the years, for best results with those aftermarket electric fans it's
sell sell sell! :0)

I noticed once I shut off the engine the temperature always immediately rises higher (e.g it would read 210 before shut off and then almost immediately read 230-240 upon shut off.....is that normal?

Yes it is -- that's expected behavior. Using rough numbers, the small block tips the scale
in the neighborhood of 500 lbs all dressed, and the 454 is on the far side of 600 lbs.

When all is well, between the radiator, exhaust, and airflow past the engine, this mass
of metal will be on average in the neighborhood of 195°. However, once the engine is
shut off and the air stagnates under the hood, thanks to all the stored heat in the engine,
exhaust manifolds, etc., will move into the coolant, with reported temps immediately start
to climb, for all that heat that's banked in that large metal mass is no longer being
constantly removed by the cooling system.

If you happen to run a mechanical water temp gauge you will see this temp rise every
time you shut down. This is only one of the many reasons why it's a poor idea to run pure
water as a coolant. (50/50 water/antifreeze mix is good to 223° unpressurized, but up to
268°F with a 15psi cap?) Even so, lubricants have been proven to work best/last longest
when we get them just over 212°F. (So that moisture will boil off.)

The bottom line is that we can get our fluids too hot, too cold, and just right. Goldilocks
would approve. :0)

Hope this sheds a little more light on the GMT400 cooling subject.
 
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1998_K1500_Sub

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That's how GM delivered these trucks. :deal:

Agreed :waytogo:

And some have removed those orifices, I think unintentionally, e.g., when replacing the quick-connect fitting in the intake (which had an integral orifice, at least on some) with a plain hose barb. This may apply to some folks in this thread, and it does to me as I've made that change myself on my Suburban.

And others have put a SMALLER orifice in that line to (further) reduce the flow / redirect the flow to the radiator.

It's so complex :think:

Then there's this:

 
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Schurkey

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Why do you recommend the195 degree thermostat over the 180 degree one?
Two reasons:
1. The OEM computer tune is expecting a minimum normal operating temperature of 195 degrees. Less than that, and perhaps the computer is adding fuel as it thinks the engine is not fully-warm yet.

2. A lower-temp thermostat is a crutch for an undersized, or improperly-inefficent cooling system. Something ELSE is wrong, don't ignore the real problem by slapping in a band-aid in the form of a lower-temp thermostat.

There CAN be a benefit to having "cool" intake manifold and cylinder heads, while having a "hot" engine block and cylinder barrels. That was the whole point of Chevy spending time, money, effort, and enthusiasm to produce the "reverse cooled" LT1 series of small-blocks in the '90s (and the Pontiac "Gusher" cooling system of '55--'60.) Both supposedly cooled the heads first using the water directly out of the radiator, and then that coolant went to the block already carrying heat from the heads. In actual practice, there's problems separating any steam/air from the coolant, as the coolant is flowing "down" while the steam/air wants to rise to the top.

I don't doubt that lower-temp thermostats are of benefit with competition engines. I question their need on street-driven vehicles, at least without some computer tuning.

I noticed once I shut off the engine the temperature always immediately rises higher (e.g it would read 210 before shut off and then almost immediately read 230-240 upon shut off.....is that normal?
Absolutely.

The fan shroud has fixed openings....check out the photo
Yup. Another shroud "engineered" by folks who don't know what they're doing. That thing should have openings between the fans that allow "ram" air flow at higher speed to bypass the fan blades, but close at low speed so air can't be sucked into them by the fans. I've seen this accomplished using a series of metal doors/flaps that close via gravity, but can "blow open" at speed; or via a sheet-rubber flap that similarly blows-open at speed but closes when there's no ram air pressure.

I’ve seen guys put an orifice in the heater lines to reduce the flow, the objective being to direct more coolant through the radiator where heat gets sinked in the airflow.
Built right into the quick-connect fitting. There's about a 1/4-inch hole, further restricted by a plastic divider. Kinda visible in this photo, lower left side.
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Erik the Awful

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You know, a lot of vehicle owners out there has been sold on the concept of electric fans
by countless magazine articles.
An electric fan made a big difference on my RX-7. With no power steering, electric fans, and a reduced diameter crank pulley that thing revved like a chainsaw. It blew through first gear as fast as you could shift it.

I put an electric fan on WCJr at first, but ditched it because a V8 doesn't care. I can't tell the difference in acceleration between the electric and clutch fans. The clutch fan is more reliable, and reliability is important on something that's going to be towing.
 

Supercharged111

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An electric fan made a big difference on my RX-7. With no power steering, electric fans, and a reduced diameter crank pulley that thing revved like a chainsaw. It blew through first gear as fast as you could shift it.

I put an electric fan on WCJr at first, but ditched it because a V8 doesn't care. I can't tell the difference in acceleration between the electric and clutch fans. The clutch fan is more reliable, and reliability is important on something that's going to be towing.

I noticed a difference in acceleration in my 88 by going efan, but 0 difference in the 98. I chalked it up to a different fan clutch design but the reality may be that I had a sticky clutch in the 88. AC blows colder at an idle and temps holds dead steady at a standstill in 1000 degree weather with an e fan for me. Other than that the clutch fan wins.
 

whataTRUUUCK

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I noticed a difference in acceleration in my 88 by going efan, but 0 difference in the 98. I chalked it up to a different fan clutch design but the reality may be that I had a sticky clutch in the 88. AC blows colder at an idle and temps holds dead steady at a standstill in 1000 degree weather with an e fan for me. Other than that the clutch fan wins.
Yea Id definitely prefer not to risk my head gaskets in exchange for a few extra hp which I probably won't even notice cause I dont have a lead foot on the pedal nor plan on drag racing with it. They say in reality you can't feel less than a 10% increase in hp. So if the engine has 200hp you wont feel a differece unless its 20 or more hp
 

whataTRUUUCK

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An electric fan made a big difference on my RX-7. With no power steering, electric fans, and a reduced diameter crank pulley that thing revved like a chainsaw. It blew through first gear as fast as you could shift it.

I put an electric fan on WCJr at first, but ditched it because a V8 doesn't care. I can't tell the difference in acceleration between the electric and clutch fans. The clutch fan is more reliable, and reliability is important on something that's going to be towing.
True dat! Ive gone on many cross country road trips and definitely know what kind of hills itll be up against. Thats really unfortunate how the previous owner spent all that money on a electric fan conversion with an end result like this. But I can blame him....too many youtube videos vouching for that kind of coversion
 

whataTRUUUCK

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Two reasons:
1. The OEM computer tune is expecting a minimum normal operating temperature of 195 degrees. Less than that, and perhaps the computer is adding fuel as it thinks the engine is not fully-warm yet.

2. A lower-temp thermostat is a crutch for an undersized, or improperly-inefficent cooling system. Something ELSE is wrong, don't ignore the real problem by slapping in a band-aid in the form of a lower-temp thermostat.

There CAN be a benefit to having "cool" intake manifold and cylinder heads, while having a "hot" engine block and cylinder barrels. That was the whole point of Chevy spending time, money, effort, and enthusiasm to produce the "reverse cooled" LT1 series of small-blocks in the '90s (and the Pontiac "Gusher" cooling system of '55--'60.) Both supposedly cooled the heads first using the water directly out of the radiator, and then that coolant went to the block already carrying heat from the heads. In actual practice, there's problems separating any steam/air from the coolant, as the coolant is flowing "down" while the steam/air wants to rise to the top.

I don't doubt that lower-temp thermostats are of benefit with competition engines. I question their need on street-driven vehicles, at least without some computer tuning.


Absolutely.


Yup. Another shroud "engineered" by folks who don't know what they're doing. That thing should have openings between the fans that allow "ram" air flow at higher speed to bypass the fan blades, but close at low speed so air can't be sucked into them by the fans. I've seen this accomplished using a series of metal doors/flaps that close via gravity, but can "blow open" at speed; or via a sheet-rubber flap that similarly blows-open at speed but closes when there's no ram air pressure.


Built right into the quick-connect fitting. There's about a 1/4-inch hole, further restricted by a plastic divider. Kinda visible in this photo, lower left side.
You must be registered for see images attach
Great observation on my fans! I never realized there should be more openings for ram air flow! As for the heater core flow, I actually have greater flow through them now (i have front and rear heater cores) cause I was forced to change all the rotted out pipes with a couple brass barbed Y fittings and those quick disconnects were seized on there with rust and the plastic was brittle from age and heat. And I got an INSANE amount of rust when backflushing the rear heater core with plain water. Took approx 30-35 gallons till it started coming out clear
 

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whataTRUUUCK

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Great observation on my fans! I never realized there should be more openings for ram air flow! As for the heater core flow, I actually have greater flow through them now (i have front and rear heater cores) cause I was forced to change all the rotted out pipes with a couple brass barbed Y fittings and those quick disconnects were seized on there with rust and the plastic was brittle from age and heat. And I got an INSANE amount of rust when backflushing the rear heater core with plain water. Took approx 30-35 gallons till it started coming out clear
 

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