700R acting up

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KyleM1990

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So as is the usual something always has to go wrong. '92 K1500. The Saturday before last I drove about 120 miles total in 95 degree heat, everything was fine, truck stayed cool, etc. I came home and parked it in the garage. About 20 minutes later I went into town and back, which is about 5 miles round trip. I noticed that my 1-2 shifts were late, like 2500-3000 RPM late, 2-3, and 3-4 seemed normal. I got home and noticed there was some transmission fluid on the garage floor, maybe 1/2 quart? It's hard to tell as spills always look like there is more than there is. I checked the fluid and it was still good, it was a bit over full when I got the truck a month and a half ago. The next day everything was back to normal and it stayed fairly normal until this past Thursday night. I went to Lowe's about 20 miles away. Truck ran and shifted fine all the way there. I was in the store for maybe 25 minutes, on the way home about 6 or 7 miles from home after slowing to allow someone to turn I noticed it didn't want to shift into overdrive. I slowed down and turned off onto a backroad and came to a stop. I could not get it to shift out of 1st gear, but I didn't try to force it and didn't rev it over 3000RPM. I kept it below 2500 and made it the rest of the way home. At this point I was quite upset and thought the transmission was probably shot. Then I got to reading about sticky governors and damaged governor gears.

The next day (last Friday) I went to go to work and it was shifting from 1st to second but not until 2000-2500 RPM or about 25mph. At light throttle it would sometimes shift earlier but sometimes not. It will also not kick down to accelerate regardless of what gear you are in. Since last Friday I've kept it close to home my drive to work is 2.5 miles in one direction and the nearest city is 2.5 miles in another and as of today the shift points are getting later 1-2 at 2500-3000RPM or about 25-30mph, 2-3 at 45-50 mph, and I have to get it up to 60mph to get into overdrive. As it warms up sometimes it will shift normally but sometimes it is still late. If I let it sit and idler for 5-10 minutes after it's warmed up they start getting way late again like 1-2 at 3000RPM late. I have checked the TV cable as I'm familiar with them from having owned a handful of cars with the Ford AOD which also uses a TV cable. It appears to be just fine. I found two different adjustment methods one manually moving the throttle to ratchet the cable, the other using the accelerator pedal. Both put it about the same spot. So I think that's good, but I don't have the gauge to fully correctly set the TV pressure.

Later tonight I plant to pull the governor out if I can pull the governor on a 4WD with the front driveshaft in place. I hope I can. I'm going to have a look at it and clean it. But I'm wondering if there is any chance this is something simple and I'm not going to have to have this transmission rebuilt or replaced? I haven't noticed any slipping and all 4 gears and reverse feel strong. I'm just getting these weird shifts later and later and no kickdown. I never did figure out where the fluid that leaked out last week came from as it hasn't leaked a drop since. It is still a bit overfull but I don't know how over full one of these can be before it causes issues. I myself have not added any fluid to it. Sorry for the long post I just wanted to make sure I described everything that has happened to give the most information possible.
 

NickTransmissions

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Later tonight I plant to pull the governor out if I can pull the governor on a 4WD with the front driveshaft in place. I hope I can. I'm going to have a look at it and clean it. But I'm wondering if there is any chance this is something simple and I'm not going to have to have this transmission rebuilt or replaced? I haven't noticed any slipping and all 4 gears and reverse feel strong. I'm just getting these weird shifts later and later and no kickdown. I never did figure out where the fluid that leaked out last week came from as it hasn't leaked a drop since. It is still a bit overfull but I don't know how over full one of these can be before it causes issues. I myself have not added any fluid to it. Sorry for the long post I just wanted to make sure I described everything that has happened to give the most information possible.
Just take the front driveshaft off to yank the governor cover off so you can inspect the governor...No upshift, either intermittent or chronic is likely governor gear stripping. You also have to pinpoint the source of your leak...Maybe it's coming from the servo cover, would also explain (in part or in full) your prolonged 1-2 shift. If the gov gear is breaking apart (relatively common), simply purchase a new gear kit for ~ $10 and r/r the gear.

If it's coming from the vent tube on top of the trans, that's normal if it's a bit overfilled...Trans was designed to vent to relieve an over-filled condition to prevent pump cavitation/destruction.

Purchase a transmission pressure gauge (0-300 psi) - no owner of a TV based transmission should be without one, unless they plan on outsourcing 100% of the transmission-related work to a shop. The gauges are inexpensive and can be a valuable tool...Even better, buy a gauge pod with a trans temp and pressure gauge and have it mounted somewhere in your cab...This way you can constantly monitor the two most important vitals for the transmission: temperature and line pressure.

Conduct a line pressure test and post your values here...Based on what they are we can go from there.

Follow these instructions: https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/bmm-9500377-04.pdf
 

KyleM1990

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Well I'll have to get myself a pressure gauge. But for now I pulled the governor. I knocked out the roll pin and got the valve out, it was pretty sticky. I let everything sit in my parts washer for an hour, gear looked good. Put it back together, drove about 15 miles to let it warm up and it was shifting normal with normal kickdown. Let it sit for about a half hour and drove it again. Everything still good. I'm going to change the fluid and filter later this week. I have no idea when it was last done.
 

Erik the Awful

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I have checked the TV cable as I'm familiar with them from having owned a handful of cars with the Ford AOD which also uses a TV cable. It appears to be just fine. I found two different adjustment methods one manually moving the throttle to ratchet the cable, the other using the accelerator pedal. Both put it about the same spot. So I think that's good, but I don't have the gauge to fully correctly set the TV pressure.

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NickTransmissions

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Well I'll have to get myself a pressure gauge. But for now I pulled the governor. I knocked out the roll pin and got the valve out, it was pretty sticky. I let everything sit in my parts washer for an hour, gear looked good. Put it back together, drove about 15 miles to let it warm up and it was shifting normal with normal kickdown. Let it sit for about a half hour and drove it again. Everything still good. I'm going to change the fluid and filter later this week. I have no idea when it was last done.
Good deal, glad it was something simple...If it happens again, remove the governor, gov valve and polish the inner bore with a bench buddy soaked in WD40. that should fix it permanently if the bore is ever so slightly out of round (somewhat common on all these governors in TH350s, 400s and 700R4s). Otherwise, go to a junkyard and grab a good used governor, put a new gear on it and roll...The reman governors for all those transmissions are over $125.00 retail (pre-covid, you were able to purchase each for about $35-$40).
 

KyleM1990

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So after a few days of everything working fine I'm having issues again. From a cold start sometimes it is perfectly normal, some times I get a few late 1-2 shifts and no overdrive until it warms up a bit. Once it gets too warm says 15 plus miles of driving I get late 1-2 shifts and it refuses to shift into OD. On the 4th I drove 25 miles one way and it shifted perfect. I got to my destination at 2pm and left at 11pm to come home. About 15 miles into my 25 mile trip home it was back to not wanting to shift out of first gear until about 3500 RPM, 2-3 shift was at about 55mph, and it wouldn't shift into overdrive. Today was the first time I drove it since Thursday night I went a total of about 10 miles into town and back. For the first 5 miles it was shifitng late and wouldn't go into OD, the second 5 miles it acted normal and went into OD.

One thing I got to reading about and thinking about. I have no idea if my TCC is ever engaging. I don't even know how to tell if the torque converter is locking up or not. And nothing I read seems to apply to a stock application so finding info is difficult. I also don't even know if this truck has a stock transmission with a lockup converter or not, I have paperwork showing it was rebuilt in 2015 about 72,000 miles ago but there is no breakdown of what they did on the receipt. It simply says "Rebuild 700R4/R&R $1800." No indication of what parts were replaced or a breakdown of parts vs labor.

The reason I bring this up is I was reading that a non functional TCC would cause the transmission to overheat in short order, and I'm wondering if that's what happened and that overheating caused other damage.

I haven't the chance to talk to any local shops, and unfortunately I can't find anyone local who would recommend any of the local shops anyway. I also haven't had a chance to get another governor to try. None of the local junkyards have anything this old and the cheapest one I've found online is $80 which is the route I plant to go, but right at the moment moeny is tight and hours are short.
 
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NickTransmissions

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So after a few days of everything working fine I'm having issues again.
What were the results of your line pressure testing?

I have no idea if my TCC is ever engaging. I don't even know how to tell if the torque converter is locking up or not.

The reason I bring this up is I was reading that a non functional TCC would cause the transmission to overheat in short order, and I'm wondering if that's what happened and that overheating caused other damage.
TCC application is usually accompanied by an addl 250-300 rpm drop shortly after the big drop resulting from your 3-4 upshift. No TCC apply can def kill the trans due to overheating.
I myselft am convinced it needs rebuilt.
I'm inclined to agree with you, yank it out, go through it if a new governor doesn't solve the problem.
 

KyleM1990

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What were the results of your line pressure testing?


TCC application is usually accompanied by an addl 250-300 rpm drop shortly after the big drop resulting from your 3-4 upshift. No TCC apply can def kill the trans due to overheating.

I'm inclined to agree with you, yank it out, go through it if a new governor doesn't solve the problem.
My big RPM drop on a 3-4 shift seems to a drop from 2100 to about 1600 RPM. This happens most notably when letting off the accelerator at about 55mph. I've never noticed two separate drops and it doesn't drop any lower then that drop to 1600 RPM.
 

NickTransmissions

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My big RPM drop on a 3-4 shift seems to a drop from 2000 to about 1600 RPM. This happens most notably when letting off the accelerator at about 55mph. I've never noticed two separate drops and it doesn't drop any lower then that drop to 1600 RPM.
At what road speed? What's the gear ratio in your differential(s)? Are you running big (33 inch or more) tires?l on your truck?

A transmission that presents with symtoms when hot (but works mostly or entirely normally when cold) is indicative of either worn applied elements, hydraulic circuitry (ir PR and/or Boost circuit) or both.

So what were rhe results of your pressure test?

Also, if you didnt do it at op temp, do it after driving the vehicle (be careful, hot fluid/etc)
 
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KyleM1990

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At what road speed? What's the gear ratio in your differential(s)? Are you running big (33 inch or more) tires?l on your truck?

A transmission that presents with symtoms when hot (but works mostly or entirely normally when cold) is indicative of either worn applied elements, hydraulic circuitry (ir PR and/or Boost circuit) or both.

So what were rhe results of your pressure test?

Also, if you didnt do it at op temp, do it after driving the vehicle (be careful, hot fluid/etc)
1600 RPM at 55mph, 265/75/15 tires roughly 30-5/8" diameter, 3.42 gears.

I haven't been able to check the pressure because I can't get a gauge anywhere locally. Even the old timers at the parts store look at me like I'm speaking Greek when I ask for a pressure gauge to read transmission pressure.
 
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