700r from 89 Vandura questions

[NickTransmissions]

Bolts right to a 4.8L or 6.0L that came with a 4L80E. As I said earlier my 6.0L bolted right to a TH400.

Bolt a 700R4 or sbc 4L60E with the 700r4 or earlier 4L60E converter to a Gen3 or 4 sbc engine without a spacer, shims, diff flexplate or any form of adaptor kit or adaptation. If it works, runs and drives, Ill stand corrected.

No one other than you is talking about fitting a TH400 nor are we even talking about TH400 interchangeability/compatobility across those engines. No one has denied a 4L80E will work on all generations of small block (gen1-4) as is.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

Bolt a 700R4 or sbc 4L60E with the 700r4 or earlier 4L60E converter to a Gen3 or 4 sbc engine without a spacer, shims, diff flexplate or any form of adaptor kit or adaptation. If it works, runs and drives, Ill stand corrected.

No one other than you is talking about fitting a TH400 nor are we even talking about TH400 interchangeability/compatobility across those engines. No one has denied a 4L80E will work on all generations of small block (gen1-4) as is.

What you fail to realize is the crank spacing is the only issue and that only effects engines that came with a 4L60E.

If you have a Gen3/GenIV engine that was bolted to a 4L80E to start with it will bolt to any older automatic without a bunch of changes. You can bolt it to a Powerglide or even a cast iron case Hydrramatic 4spd if you had one from an I6 or SBC truck application with the correct bellhousing. The 4.8L and 6.0L truck manual applications will bolt right to older manual transmissions as well. The NV3500 used in the early GMT800s with the 4.8L was the same as the one bolted to a 350. The early 4.8 manual and the 6.0L both had long cranks. The factory installed GM spacer on the newer engine did away with the need for GM to make a long crank for the application. The 4.8s and 6.0s bolted to a 4L80E to start with have the correct flexplate setup to bolt to any older automatic out of the box since we both agree the Gen 3 or Gen IV 4L80E bolts to a SBC, Big Block, 6.5L diesel, 6.6L Duramax diesel, or even a 4.3L out of the box.

The only change needed to bolt a 6.0L from a 4L80E application to say an early 4L60E or 700r4 is to elongate the converter bolt holes a bit. The 4L80E converter bolt pattern is slightly larger than the 700r4/4L60E pattern. The 4L80E pattern is the same as a TH400 and some TH350s though. IIRC the Powerglide converter I had also used the TH400/4L80E comverter pattern. The torque converter pilot is integral to the long crank or factory spacer and if it matched the 4L80E it matches the other bolt patterns. You can even bolt a 6.0L that came with a 4L80E directly to an Allison 1000. I have seen an 8.1L truck swapped to a 6.0L for who only knows why.

 

[NickTransmissions]

What you fail to realize is the crank spacing is the only issue and that only effects engines that came with a 4L60E.

If you have a Gen3/GenIV engine that was bolted to a 4L80E to start with it will bolt to any older automatic without a bunch of changes. You can bolt it to a Powerglide or even a cast iron case Hydrramatic 4spd if you had one from an I6 or SBC truck application with the correct bellhousing. The 4.8L and 6.0L truck manual applications will bolt right to older manual transmissions as well. The NV3500 used in the early GMT800s with the 4.8L was the same as the one bolted to a 350. The early 4.8 manual and the 6.0L both had long cranks. The factory installed GM spacer on the newer engine did away with the need for GM to make a long crank for the application. The 4.8s and 6.0s bolted to a 4L80E to start with have the correct flexplate setup to bolt to any older automatic out of the box since we both agree the Gen 3 or Gen IV 4L80E bolts to a SBC, Big Block, 6.5L diesel, 6.6L Duramax diesel, or even a 4.3L out of the box.

Again, re-read what I posted about 4L80E interchange between the different engine families.

I'm done with this particular exchange; reply however you'd like - you can have the last word...Def not worth my time at this point.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

Again, re-read what I posted about 4L80E interchange between the different engine families.

I'm done with this particular exchange; reply however you'd like - you can have the last word...Def not worth my time at this point.

I read your post, you can be done with the conversation but it does not mean what you said is factually accurate. A factory Gen 3 or Gen IV engine that came with a 4L80E will bolt directly to any of the older automatics bolt pattern, crank spacing and converter pilot wise. The only hangup would be if the converter bolt circle on the transmission you plan to use is the smaller pattern. My TH400 had the same converter pattern as the 4L80E. The 4L60E equipped LS engines are the oddball. They have the shorter crank or lack a factory spacer and have a dished flexplate. There is also a member driving a 6L80E swapped L31 truck and had no issue with bolt pattern, crank spacing or converter pilot wise mating the 6L80E to the L31. What that tells me is a LS that had a 6L80E behind it will bolt to an older automatic as well without an issue. That makes the newer 4L60E setup its own setup compared to the other combinations.

I pulled a 4L80E from behind a 6.0L bolted it directly to a TH400, got it fired and drove it about 5,000 miles. Aside from the converter bolt holes being off could have done the same with an older 700r4 or 4L60. 10 minutes with a carbide tip in an air dremel fixes that slighy issue without spending any money.

 

[NickTransmissions]

I read your post....The 4L60E equipped LS engines are the oddball. They have the shorter crank or lack a factory spacer and have a dished flexplate. There is also a member driving a 6L80E swapped L31 truck and had no issue with bolt patttern, crank spacing or converter pilot wise mating the 6L80E to the L31. What that tells me is a LS that had a 6L80E behind it will bolt to an older automatic as well without an issue. That makes the newer 4L60E setup its own setup compared to the other combinations.

Read it again:

You must be registered for see images attach

I said, " It is true for the 4L80Es" in response to his post ----> meaning that you can put any year 4L80E behind any generation of GM engine without the aid of any spacers, shims, adaptor plates, etc.

AFAIK, you CANNOT do the same with any year 4L60E as the bell, input shaft, pump stator length and torque converter depth/thickness changed between the Gen1/Gen2 4L60Es and the Gen3/4 4L60Es.

Why do you think Im trying to say that 4L80Es and TH400s won't interchange between engine families??????

 

[L31MaxExpress]

Read it again:

You must be registered for see images attach

I said, " It is true for the 4L80Es" in response to his post ----> meaning that you can put any year 4L80E behind any generation of GM engine without the aid of any spacers, shims, adaptor plates, etc.

AFAIK, you CANNOT do the same with any year 4L60E as the bell, input shaft, pump stator length and torque converter depth/thickness changed between the Gen1/Gen2 4L60Es and the Gen3/4 4L60Es.

Why do you think Im trying to say that 4L80Es and TH400s won't interchange between engine families??????

It reads like you cannot interchange an old 4L60E or 700r4 automatic or pick your choice behind a Gen III or GenIV engine. My point is if that Gen III or GenIV had a 4L80E factory the older transmissions will in fact bolt pretty much directly into place. The factory spacer replaced the long crankshaft variant and the flat flexplate was used rather than the dished 4L60E unit.

Using a 4L80E DOES require a spacer and correct flexplate to bolt behind a Gen III or GenIV engine that had a 4L60E to start with. If you try to bolt a 4L80E to a Gen III or GenIV that had a 4L60E there will be a solid 1" gap between the flexplate and fully seated converter rather than the required 1/8".

I feel like we are both getting at the same thing, just different way of explaining it. The later model 4L60E changes are responsible for the 4L60E crank length and dished flexplate change. The rest of the setups stayed the same well except the LS1 T56.

 

[NickTransmissions]

I feel like we are both getting at the same thing, just different way of explaining it.

Maybe, possibly...It's the internet and we don't have the benefit of being in the same room or on a phone call where things can be explained, rapidly clarified, etc in a lot better detail in a much shorter time period.

That said, it would make a good video topic for my youtube channel so perhaps will revisit in the fall since doing it will require me to be outdoors doing lots of bolting/unbolting of various 4L60Es and 80s to engines in various combinations across the different engine families.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

Maybe, possibly...It's the internet and we don't have the benefit of being in the same room or on a phone call where things can be explained, rapidly clarified, etc in a lot better detail in a much shorter time period.

That said, it would make a good video topic for my youtube channel so perhaps will revisit in the fall since doing it will require me to be outdoors doing lots of bolting/unbolting of various 4L60Es and 80s to engines in various combinations across the different engine families.

That would be an interesting topic. The internet is filled with loads of myths on the subject. I found out alot of what I know on the subject either doing it myself or watching others do it. For the longest time I was told that an older engine would not bolt to a 6L80E without the GM bellhousing spacer or a custom built converter and 97Centurion proved that wrong too. His 6L80E was bolted to a L83 Gen V that grenaded from DOD lifter failure.

Post in thread 'L31/6L80e' https://www.gmt400.com/threads/l31-6l80e.54465/post-1187686

I have a Duramax 6L90E in my shop floor and measured converter to bellhousing face with the converter fully seated. It is exactly the same depth as the 4L80E I also have in the shop floor next to it. Converter bolt pattern is also the same as is the converter pilot diameter and depth. The Diesel 6L90E will thus bolt right to my L31 based 383 when I get around to that whole transmission, harness, PCM, DBW swap someday.

 

[NickTransmissions]

That would be an interesting topic. The internet is filled with loads of myths on the subject. I found out alot of what I know on the subject either doing it myself or watching others do it. For the longest time I was told that an older engine would not bolt to a 6L80E without the GM bellhousing spacer or a custom built converter and 97Centurion proved that wrong too.

Post in thread 'L31/6L80e' https://www.gmt400.com/threads/l31-6l80e.54465/post-1187686

I have a customer that have done the same with a 6L90 I built for him behind a big block in a restored 70s K5 some years ago...He did the whole 4x4 swap (wanted a modern trans but had a built big block in the Blazer). I think he had a donor vehicle for the transmission/tcase, etc.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

I have a customer that have done the same with a 6L90 I built for him behind a big block in a restored 70s K5 some years ago...He did the whole 4x4 swap (wanted a modern trans but had a built big block in the Blazer). I think he had a donor vehicle for the transmission/tcase, etc.

I have a 6L90E from a Duramax with only 24K miles on it. Will be doing the same with my L31 based 383. I will be going to a 58x setup, DBW, and an E67 PCM with a modified late model Express engine harness to run it all. Just have not had time to dive off into it all yet.

Another thing that is rarely mentioned is the 4L60E transmission mounting point changed when the 4L60E became a 2 piece bellhousing even in the SBC era. Years ago when I put the 4L65E built for the older 350 as you previously mentioned into my 97 Express van I had to scrounge up a junkyard 1998-2002 1500 van aka 6 lug 2500 van crossmember to get the newer style case mounted into place. The mounting point moved and the crossmember on the vans bolt to brackets welded to the frame. 96-97 thus had a different crossmember than 98-02. I had to fabricate my own modified crossmember for the 4L85E swap later. My buddy also put a 99 Tahoe transmission in his 97 extended cab years ago, had to move the crossmember back and drill new holes in his frame.

I feel like a lot of people having header and oil pan fitment issues on a LS swap are using the older OE 700r4/4L60E mounting point for the newer 4L60E and it pushes the engine too far foward because of this. If they used stock position relative to the bellhousing adapter mounts and moved their crossmember back they would no longer have oil pan or header fitment issues. This becomes even more of a problem with a 6L80E because the mounting point is another ~1|2" farther from the bellhousing than the late model 4L60E which is already like 2" off. Moving the engine 2-1/2" forward creates all kinds of clearence issues.