pinion seal replacement trouble

[Das Hatt]

I am no expert by any means, all I've done is worked on my one truck and most of what I learned was from here and YouTube.

That being said, I used red Valvoline grease

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on the yolk splines, and also around the rubber part of the pinion seal. Never install a dry seal.

Then around the outside of the seal itself, I used ultra black permatex gasket maker

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If you want to change the diff fluid, you just have to take the diff cover off and let it drain. Install a new gasket, I used a Fel Pro paper gasket and I've been happy with it. Refill the diff with the correct gear oil weight until it dribbles out the fill hole.

I can't comment on the crush washer/workings of the gears because I have zero experience with that.

 

[Hipster]

at one point during the installation i may have hammered on the nut and let more than previous amount of threads show.
as in, there were two and a half threads showing at first, but i might have hammered it with the air impact to about five threads showing at one point.

And then backed it off until 2.5 threads and called it good? That would have over crushed the sleeve. Pretty sure they all have the crush sleeve unless someone's been in it before and did a shim kit.

Like others I have a diff guy. Done wrong might be putting gears and bearings in it in short order, and sometimes seals leak because the bearing was already sloppy.

 

[Isaacmacleod]

I wish I could but I made the decision long ago to leave any rear end work to my driveline shop. Maybe one day that will change.
Of course my pinion seal is leaking 3 years after they installed my new gears but, for $200 they'll change my rear diff fluid and inspect, and replace the pinion seal....
Might be worth seeing if you have any reputable driveline shops and how much it would cost to make your anxiety go away.

It seems like most people are of a similar opinion on this one.

Everyone i asked said either not to mess with it or take it to a shop but i was bold and retarded.

I like this idea and i’m starting to think it’s the right move at this point.

Sadly
Thanks Man!

 

[Isaacmacleod]

And then backed it off until 2.5 threads and called it good? That would have over crushed the sleeve. Pretty sure they all have the crush sleeve unless someone's been in it before and did a shim kit.

Like others I have a diff guy. Done wrong might be putting gears and bearings in it in short order, and sometimes seals leak because the bearing was already sloppy.

Appreciate the input.
Looks like you are correct.

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So yeah i probably ****** up my crush type spacer. (number 4)

And the bearing near the seal might have been going bad which may be why the seal went also.

So perhaps it’s worth looking into a either a differential tear down and rebuild

or a replacement with a better six lug axle at this point.

I didn’t want to mess with anything this early on in the game. Since my diff seemed to have lots of life left in it.

 

[Isaacmacleod]

I am no expert by any means, all I've done is worked on my one truck and most of what I learned was from here and YouTube.

That being said, I used red Valvoline grease

You must be registered for see images attach

on the yolk splines, and also around the rubber part of the pinion seal. Never install a dry seal.

Then around the outside of the seal itself, I used ultra black permatex gasket maker

You must be registered for see images attach

If you want to change the diff fluid, you just have to take the diff cover off and let it drain. Install a new gasket, I used a Fel Pro paper gasket and I've been happy with it. Refill the diff with the correct gear oil weight until it dribbles out the fill hole.

I can't comment on the crush washer/workings of the gears because I have zero experience with that.

Thanks Guy.
Wish i had posted something in here before i tried this job hahaha

 

[Schurkey]

I don't know where to start.

Your differential does not have a "crush washer". It does have a "crush sleeve" unless someone has had it apart and installed a solid shim with selective-fit washers. (That would be unlikely.)

If you overtightened the nut on the yoke, the crush sleeve is now over-crushed and has to be replaced. You cannot just back the nut off to about where it was before. In the process of overtightening the nut, the pinion bearing preload would have increased, which probably accounts for the heat in the pinion section of the differential housing you're feeling.

None of this changes the gear mesh, so unless the bearings fail from too much preload (or they were worn-out prior to your seal replacement) the gears should be undamaged. You may need to replace some bearings and the crush-sleeve, but--relatively speaking--this should be an easy job. No dicking with pinion depth, probably no need to change differential side bearings--and therefore no need to play games with the differential shims.

ANY lube on the pinion seal should be adequate. "Lithium high-pressure" grease is about the most-common kind on Earth. You could use axle-lube as well. Or a wipe of engine oil. What is more important than the KIND of lube, is that it has SOME lube--and there's no groove worn into the yoke sealing surface.

When I've changed pinion seals but NOT changed the yoke, I scribe a mark on one corner of the nut, and a matching mark on the yoke. Then I merely count the threads as the nut comes off, and then put the nut back on exactly the same number of turns--so the nut is positioned exactly the same on reassembly as it was before I disturbed it--and then tighten it just a hint more. Not 1/6 of a turn (one flat.) Not 1/12 of a turn (1/2 of a flat.) JUST A TOUCH tighter. The scribe mark on the corner of the nut is maybe 1/16 of an inch past the scribe mark on the yoke. "Blue" Loctite thread locker (242) on the nut may be a good idea.

Some sealer is needed on the splines of the yoke/pinion to prevent grease seepage. RTV Silicone is adequate for this, but it might be best to use gear-lube resistant RTV, because regular RTV "can" be degraded by synthetic geaarlube.

But in the end, a 10-bolt axle isn't worth the trouble. Find a GMT400 "14-bolt semi-float" axle of the right width and gear ratio. The downside here is that a 2WD will either need the wheels that fit the donor axle (6-lug) or replacement axle shafts drilled in the 5-lug pattern.

 

[Supercharged111]

This is how I marked my 1500 when I did it 4 years ago.

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I realized there was no need to count threads, it'll be tight in the same spot as before which is easy to feel if you do it by hand. Which is how you should be doing it. I'd marked the yoke, pinion, and nut. It was about impossible to put it back together wrong, especially when I'd taken this pic to reference in order to save me from myself.

 

[Isaacmacleod]

I don't know where to start.

Your differential does not have a "crush washer". It does have a "crush sleeve" unless someone has had it apart and installed a solid shim with selective-fit washers. (That would be unlikely.)

If you overtightened the nut on the yoke, the crush sleeve is now over-crushed and has to be replaced. You cannot just back the nut off to about where it was before. In the process of overtightening the nut, the pinion bearing preload would have increased, which probably accounts for the heat in the pinion section of the differential housing you're feeling.

None of this changes the gear mesh, so unless the bearings fail from too much preload (or they were worn-out prior to your seal replacement) the gears should be undamaged. You may need to replace some bearings and the crush-sleeve, but--relatively speaking--this should be an easy job. No dicking with pinion depth, probably no need to change differential side bearings--and therefore no need to play games with the differential shims.

ANY lube on the pinion seal should be adequate. "Lithium high-pressure" grease is about the most-common kind on Earth. You could use axle-lube as well. Or a wipe of engine oil. What is more important than the KIND of lube, is that it has SOME lube--and there's no groove worn into the yoke sealing surface.

When I've changed pinion seals but NOT changed the yoke, I scribe a mark on one corner of the nut, and a matching mark on the yoke. Then I merely count the threads as the nut comes off, and then put the nut back on exactly the same number of turns--so the nut is positioned exactly the same on reassembly as it was before I disturbed it--and then tighten it just a hint more. Not 1/6 of a turn (one flat.) Not 1/12 of a turn (1/2 of a flat.) JUST A TOUCH tighter. The scribe mark on the corner of the nut is maybe 1/16 of an inch past the scribe mark on the yoke. "Blue" Loctite thread locker (242) on the nut may be a good idea.

Some sealer is needed on the splines of the yoke/pinion to prevent grease seepage. RTV Silicone is adequate for this, but it might be best to use gear-lube resistant RTV, because regular RTV "can" be degraded by synthetic geaarlube.

But in the end, a 10-bolt axle isn't worth the trouble. Find a GMT400 "14-bolt semi-float" axle of the right width and gear ratio. The downside here is that a 2WD will either need the wheels that fit the donor axle (6-lug) or replacement axle shafts drilled in the 5-lug pattern.

i was hoping you’d chime in Sir.

I’m really glad to hear that changing the outer bearing and crush sleeve wouldn’t be too big of a job.

I was thinking i might need the whole thing redone at this point.

I will be finding a reputable mechanic to do this for me.

And as for the switch to a six lug 14 bolt axle.

I’m allllll for it.

If i can find a 3.73 6 lug off axle from a c2500 in good condition i will go that route.

I would be willing to make the investment in some six lug rims and tires.

But can i run six lug on the back and five lugs on the front or will i need some new rotors as well?

 

[Isaacmacleod]

This is how I marked my 1500 when I did it 4 years ago.

You must be registered for see images attach

I realized there was no need to count threads, it'll be tight in the same spot as before which is easy to feel if you do it by hand. Which is how you should be doing it. I'd marked the yoke, pinion, and nut. It was about impossible to put it back together wrong, especially when I'd taken this pic to reference in order to save me from myself.

Man thanks for the input. I tried

You must be registered for see images attach

unfortunately I decided to hammer the nut without the washer with an air impact because I had it in my mind that the yoke wasn’t seated over the splines far enough.


It seems after the fact like the yoke actually WANTS to sit about a centimeter over the pinion splines, the splines don’t actually want to be flush with eachother.

Anyways i hammers on just the nut thinking i could get it the rest of the way on, and this is when I think i crushed my sleeve.

 

[Supercharged111]

Man thanks for the input. I tried

You must be registered for see images attach

unfortunately I decided to hammer the nut without the washer with an air impact because I had it in my mind that the yoke wasn’t seated over the splines far enough.


It seems after the fact like the yoke actually WANTS to sit about a centimeter over the pinion splines, the splines don’t actually want to be flush with eachother.

Anyways i hammers on just the nut thinking i could get it the rest of the way on, and this is when I think i crushed my sleeve.

The way you marked both sides gave you a right and wrong way to put it back together too.