Bearings and rings for a novice builder

[0xDEADBEEF]

Yup, & danged fortunate for both of us. That yellow C8 at COTA --- that's not Really a race car either, even though it was delivered w/ dry sump --- as is every C8 ---do ya think a dry sump = real race car?
Reference late seventies 4 door sedan MB 450SEL 6.9 --- a heavy freakin' tank. But it's got a dry sump.


And, ya still haven't answered --- most likely that's primarily because ya have nothing of your own!
When ya talk trash, ya should back it up or shut it up. As has been said, go to a local CT then FAFO !

Show me where I said my C8 was a race car. It's a street car and I darned well know it.

Has a wet sump car won any kind of major race (Le Mans, Indy 500, etc.) in the last 60 years? Maybe it has, I don't know, but the Ford GT40 had a dry sump 60 years ago for reasons you apparently can't understand. I doubt it was even the first, but it's the only old race car I know anything about.

WTF did I talk trash about? You can race lawnmowers too, are they race cars?

 

[Supercharged111]

Show me where I said my C8 was a race car. It's a street car and I darned well know it.

Has a wet sump car won any kind of major race (Le Mans, Indy 500, etc.) in the last 60 years? Maybe it has, I don't know, but the Ford GT40 had a dry sump 60 years ago for reasons you apparently can't understand. I doubt it was even the first, but it's the only old race car I know anything about.

WTF did I talk trash about? You can race lawnmowers too, are they race cars?

If they have a dry sump, yes.

 

[Scooterwrench]

You can race lawnmowers too, are they race cars?

No,but sure is a helluva lotta fun!!!

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

I never meant to say racing is only this certain type of thing that I like, or you have to have a dry sump to race. Converted street cars have compromises not limited to just the oiling system.

I feel like maybe I'm digging a hole, so I will stop.

 

[Erik the Awful]

I think the argument is poorly framed. As the SCCA likes to say in their promotional materials, every car can be a race car some time.

There are purpose-built race cars, and these are almost exclusively dry-sump.

There are converted street cars, and these are almost exclusively wet-sump.

If you're going to be doing serious endurance racing, you need to strongly consider a dry-sump system. My race team has looked at it for our car, but there's no way to math out a dry-sump system on a crap can racer. Used dry sump parts cost more than we're allotted for our entire car build. Budget $1500+ for a full system.

For anything less than serious endurance racing or off-roading, stick with a wet-sump system. They're cheaper and they require less maintenance.

 

[Scooterwrench]

Seems a dry sump system could be easily built. Use the existing oil pump to scavenge to a tank and install a belt driven pump to the front of the engine that feeds the engine from the tank. Use an oil filter adapter to redirect the oil out and in and throw a remote filter in the return side. The thing to keep in mind is the scavenging pump needs to pump more volume than the feed pump.

 

[Supercharged111]

Seems a dry sump system could be easily built. Use the existing oil pump to scavenge to a tank and install a belt driven pump to the front of the engine that feeds the engine from the tank. Use an oil filter adapter to redirect the oil out and in and throw a remote filter in the return side. The thing to keep in mind is the scavenging pump needs to pump more volume than the feed pump.

That doesn't help evacuate crankcase gases though.

 

[Scooterwrench]

That doesn't help evacuate crankcase gases though.

That's not the job of the dry sump system. That's the job of the crankcase ventilation system. If you're going to go through the trouble and expense of a dry sump I would imagine you're going to work on vapor scavenging too. When I was building kart motors one of the areas I worked on was the crankcase breather. It's a lot more important on a single or twin cylinder engines where crankcase pressures are a lot higher on the downstroke. Those pressures actually hold the engine back and hurt HP but are a lot easier to negate with a simple check valve. Harley did it with a rotating breather valve with a port that opened to the atmosphere as the pistons started their downstroke then closed as they started back up. In late '92 they went to check valves in the rocker boxes which was a way better system,didn't puke oil if the bike sat for a week.
Most of our modern multi cylinder engines have the PCV(Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system that creates negative crankcase pressure through the PCV valve plumbed to manifold vacuum but it really only works at idle and part throttle. No vacuum,no scavenging. Those gulp valves that go into the header collectors and pull vapors out of the valve covers probably work better than the vacuum PCV on a race car.

 

[Supercharged111]

PCV is for a wet sump, a proper dry sump setup will pull a regulated vacuum on the crankcase. I believe the C6 Corvette used a dry sump as you described, using the pump in the sump as the scavenge pump. I know it was a bit compromised.

 

[Schurkey]

WHO CARES about dry-sump vs. wet-sump when the guy starting the thread wants to know what rings and bearings to buy for a "stock" engine?