PMGR starter differences

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SAATR

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rebelyell said:
Denso & Hitachi make top quality starters & alternators. But, regardless of brand, I'm no fan of starters which are open and have no support for outboard end of shaft. Over the long-run, I think it matters. JMO
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There could certainly be a difference, but I would think that so long as the shaft and support bearings are appropriately designed to minimize deflection and distribute load, one design would have no advantage over the other. I've seen both styles used in large displacement industrial engines, and the most common reasons for failure are typically maintenance related or faults in the control systems (solenoids and supply valves), not the bendix drive itself.
 
someotherguy

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Something interesting to note - I don't doubt that Denso is a good starter, but that Denso
281-8002 is listed as a 1.2kW motor, while the Remy 96206 is shown as 2.0kW. Maybe they have different gear reductions that make the difference a wash, dunno, I'm no expert! I was just a little surprised by the difference. BTW the Remy 96113 direct drive model is 1.2kW as well (with of course no benefit of gear reduction.)

The part #'s listed for our '06 SS's - Remy 96228 is 1.7kW, while the AC Delco 3371033 is 2.0kW. I've got the AC Delco on my truck, while my wife's got the Remy I had on the shelf when hers went bad. Subjective to be sure but I can "hear" that my starter sounds stronger when cranking.

Richard
 
SAATR

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someotherguy said:
Something interesting to note - I don't doubt that Denso is a good starter, but that Denso
281-8002 is listed as a 1.2kW motor, while the Remy 96206 is shown as 2.0kW. Maybe they have different gear reductions that make the difference a wash, dunno, I'm no expert! I was just a little surprised by the difference. BTW the Remy 96113 direct drive model is 1.2kW as well (with of course no benefit of gear reduction.)

The part #'s listed for our '06 SS's - Remy 96228 is 1.7kW, while the AC Delco 3371033 is 2.0kW. I've got the AC Delco on my truck, while my wife's got the Remy I had on the shelf when hers went bad. Subjective to be sure but I can "hear" that my starter sounds stronger when cranking.

Richard
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Now I'm curious as to how much power the starter is actually consuming. May have to get my amp clamp out and see what locked rotor and steady state amps are, with the fuel pump fuse out.

Looking at the product specs on RA, the Delco Gold 3371022 PMGR starter shows to be 1.0kW, while the Remy 96206 is 2.0kW, as you said. Bosch and a couple other odd brands seem to settle around 1.7kW. That's quite a spread to all share the same application.
 
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Schurkey

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Electric motor specs are not to be trusted. Verify to be sure.

The air-compressor industry got in trouble for selling "5-horse" motors on air compressors running on a 120-volt, 15-amp circuit. Those motors actually put out about 2 hp.

And the electric "shop-vac" motors were worse. "6 hp" motors the size of a grapefruit, that actually put out a fraction of a horsepower.

A "2kW" starter motor, would need to draw 200 amperes at 10 volts; and that's about what a "high torque" direct-drive starter will pull when actually cranking an engine.
 
someotherguy

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Now you have me suspicious of my air compressor.. I know manufacturers like to fudge specs, but that's pretty extreme.

EDIT - worries allayed. My 20 gallon baby Ingersoll Rand has a 2HP rating on the motor. Bought it 13-14 years ago and it's been solid for a smallish home-use compressor.

Richard
 
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454cid

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I'd be careful of any "Remy" non-commercial starters at this point in time. A few years ago Remy was bought out. Borg Warner got the bulk of the business, and one of the big starter/alternator rebuild companies got the automotive replacement side of things. I think most "Remy" products that we'd see are just the typical new starters and alternators from China, or they're rebuilt by the new parent company.
 
someotherguy

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454cid said:
I'd be careful of any "Remy" non-commercial starters at this point in time. A few years ago Remy was bought out. Borg Warner got the bulk of the business, and one of the big starter/alternator rebuild companies got the automotive replacement side of things. I think most "Remy" products that we'd see are just the typical new starters and alternators from China, or they're rebuilt by the new parent company.
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I expect them all to be Chinesium, for years now. None of it will be the sources from decades ago. Absolutely buying "new" though, not rebuilt.

It was disappointing about 15 years ago when I'd discovered the last real old-school starter/alternator shop I had been going to since the 80's was no longer in operation. "AAA Generator" on Washington avenue approaching downtown Houston. The closest substitute I could find was over by my shop, and while they were clearly rebuilding a lot of products, when I approached them with a milk crate full of GM PMGR's for rebuilding, they were not interested at all and suggested I just go buy some new ones. :confused:

Richard
 
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