PMGR starter differences

someotherguy said:

Not sure why anybody would look outside of what's already listed as compatible for their year model and engine for a GMT400 starter motor, unless they were hunting in the boneyard with limited availability of donor vehicles and wanted to maximize their potential for finding one that would fit. Otherwise, buying new, the Remy 96206 I mentioned (AND the TSB Schurkey linked mentions) fits across all years of GMT400 small and big blocks and probably fits the 4.3 as well (though those are all listed with DD starters instead of PMGR) and it's easy to find that info since they are listed by those same applications. ex. OP has a 1990 C1500 5.7, look it up, one of the listed choices is.. Remy 96206

Richard

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I think availability is the concern. I know there's a ton of S10's, S10 Blazers, and Astros in my usual junkyard. But, not many GMT400's with Vortec. So, the 4.3 liter starters do in fact fit, and the only difference is the motor casing. The aluminum nose section comes further back on the steel motor casing on the GMT400 starter than it does on the 4.3 starter. Otherwise, they appear identical. That being said, if you need a used one and there's a butt ton of 4.3's in the yard, it'll work.

I got updates. My O'Really starter went in, but with a few hiccups. I used the Dorman bolts because they were at the parts store. DON'T do that.............one of them does NOT go all the way in, and I had to use a couple washers. The starter alignment was off just a tickle. I had to move it around to make it quiet down. Before anyone scolds me, I know this is not correct and can lead to problems. SORRY!! I ordered the GM bolts thru work but they won't be in till Monday. Currently it sounds like it needs a thin shim, but won't know for sure till I try the new bolts. Also, I had to trim just a little off of my inspection cover for the nose cone casting to fit. Not a big deal. Other than that, it works, no cutting or extending any wiring, and it spins over nice and quick. One thing though, I see a lot of starters online where the casting is machined shiny smooth where it meets the block. Mine is not....it's rough cast. I looked at another starter from a different store and it's also rough cast, but there was more of a pad there. Keep this in mind, because they may require shimming regardless due to manufacturing inconsistencies. Makes me wish I had the money for a brand new AC Delco unit instead of the parts store stuff. But, is what it is. YMMV!

scott2093 said:

Looks like my original bolts are about 8.5mm longer than what the recommended 12338064 would be.. Not sure I can see that being an issue... I still need new ones anyway so would get the 12338064 if I get a different starter......
Your Not worried about the mention in the pdf or maybe yours are the exception??
"The knurled area of the starter bolt maintains correct pinion alignment by preventing
twisting between the starter housing and the bolt. All PG starter housings are machined for
a 10.1mm knurl. Most 10MT starters use a 9.7mm housing. Using the incorrect knurl will
allow the starter to twist and result in pinion misalignment, noise, and premature pinion and
flywheel wear"

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No idea if that is supposed to apply to the Denso or not. I checked bolt-to-bore clearance vs the 10MT and it was identical. Also checked pinion-to-flywheel clearance and it was within spec, using feeler gauges.

Erik the Awful said:

That looks absolutely perfect, and of course "This item is discontinued".

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Thanks for the heads-up. They're still available on Amazon, so I just bought another for a spare.

someotherguy said:

That's good stuff; how did you look it up? Interesting that Rock doesn't have an actual description for it other than the "GM GENUINE" and part #. That clamp-on style is nice, providing it fits the solenoid on whichever brand aftermarket PMGR starter one might choose.

I was trying to look one up that fit OEM-style like the one that came off my '98 7.4 yard wrecker but no luck right off the bat on Rock or GMPD. Less flexible in that it depends on the specific length of starter motor w/thru-bolt, and the solenoid screws, but I was curious if it could be found online regardless.

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Richard

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i did the conversion on my squarebody a few years back. think I was just nerding out on RA and found it.

Erik the Awful said:

That looks absolutely perfect, and of course "This item is discontinued".

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281-8002 supercedes to a 281-8102, which is exactly what I was shipped when I ordered the 281-8002 two years ago. Just found the box that my starter came in. So they are still in production.

ARP steps the shank of the bolt, leaving ALL the knurl at the smaller diameter. This is not optimum, but should work OK.


GM steps the knurl, so that the big part of the knurl fits the starter, and the small part of the knurl fits the block. I like the GM bolts better than the ARP.


The PG260 and many other PMGR "mini-starters" have 10mm holes in the starter housing, but the block is bored and tapped for 3/8-16. Thus the need for stepped starter bolts--big enough to fit snug in the starter housing, but with a 3/8-16 threaded section and smaller knurl to fit the block.

Schurkey said:

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ARP steps the shank of the bolt, leaving ALL the knurl at the smaller diameter. This is not optimum, but should work OK.

You must be registered for see images attach

GM steps the knurl, so that the big part of the knurl fits the starter, and the small part of the knurl fits the block. I like the GM bolts better than the ARP.

You must be registered for see images attach

The PG260 and many other PMGR "mini-starters" have 10mm holes in the starter housing, but the block is bored and tapped for 3/8-16. Thus the need for stepped starter bolts--big enough to fit snug in the starter housing, but with a 3/8-16 threaded section and smaller knurl to fit the block.

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Yes. It's these pics in previous posts that I saw. But, I cheaped out and got the Dorkman ones because they were available right away. I'm hoping that the bolt is the issue and the GM ones will tighten down all the way. Even the stock style reman huge starter had washers under the bolt heads....I'm really wondering why. Both bolt holes were clean, BTW. Gotta wait till Monday........

Jerrys1990 said:

But, I cheaped out and got the Dorkman ones because they were available right away. I'm hoping that the bolt is the issue and the GM ones will tighten down all the way. Even the stock style reman huge starter had washers under the bolt heads....I'm really wondering why. Both bolt holes were clean, BTW. Gotta wait till Monday........

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Weird....Dorman specs say they're same as the GM 12338064..and they cross reference that GM number.........
Interesting the GM 12338064 is actually called for in the 1990 C1500 4.3l and the 91 5.0l......

scott2093 said:

Weird....Dorman specs say they're same as the GM 12338064..and they cross reference that GM number.........
Interesting the GM 12338064 is actually called for in the 1990 C1500 4.3l and the 91 5.0l......

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I think the GM # is what I got last year for Rawhide's starter (went from full size starter to the smaller one)...they came from the Chevy parts counter so I hope they are genuine GM! No packaging, they just handed me two bolts and the receipt.

Denso & Hitachi make top quality starters & alternators. But, regardless of brand, I'm no fan of starters which are open and have no support for outboard end of shaft. Over the long-run, I think it matters. JMO