98 K1500 motor swap but no start

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Road Trip

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Can't beat it! Love the process and can't wait to pass it on to my 16yr old son (who is helping me and also hoping to take possession of this truck someday ; )

NICE. I am a huge fan of father/son projects. (I am the father of twin daughters, and recently I've been
blessed with 3 infant grandsons...and I can't wait to be able to teach them 'Lefty Loosey, Righty Tighty'.)
See attached for a photo taken 'round the turn of the century when I had my daughters help me put a
V8 together. Probably the only young ladies in their middle school that knew how to use a torque wrench. :0)

Anyway, teaching your son how to be more self-sufficient when it comes to taking care of his own stuff is a
huge gift. For me, working on cars morphed into working on aircraft and also large computer installations. Working
on your own stuff is much more rare today than when I was growing up in the midwest in the early '70s.
Make sure and tell your son that Road Trip said to take plenty of pride in fixing your own ride. (!)

****

Everyone in here seems to be a big fan of the GMT400s. And this forum is an oasis of neighborly folk who
remember what it was like to start out in this hobby, and enjoy doing whatever they can to help out others
joining in the fun, even if it's just looking over your virtual shoulder and sharing a pointer or two.

Again, there's lots of talent in this forum. If I get caught up in a pending move there are several others
who can seamlessly jump in and share their expertise. All in all, this really feels like a good use of my time.

Best of luck --
 

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DHud

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Love it. I got it from my dad who did the same with me. Attached is a pic of us pulling a motor out of a 71 Cougar he had... pic was taken shortly before he passed. He was my "over the shoulder" guy for stuff like this!
 

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Road Trip

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I reread the step by step list I posted in reply #46, and I still think it's a
good process. The thing that originally caught my eye was that you were
originally experiencing a strange circuit-breaker cooling off symptom with
the lights after trying to crank your engine over?

But after careful review of the starting/cranking circuit, there's no circuit
breaker directly involved? And assuming that no modification of the wiring harness
has occurred, then the only thing in common would be the ground circuit/possible
backfeeding of the high starter current?

****

Given the above, we need to be able to accurately verify that the ground plane is
as documented in the diagram posted in reply #22. Specifically, we need to verify
G105 at the bottom of that diagram was properly reconnected after the engine
swap?

****

But shame on me if I assume that you share the same familiarity with the GMT400 grounding
system as I have. In order to help dealer technicians and others in the support organization
be able to communicate with each other about the electrical power and ground distribution
systems, the General has a naming convention for all this stuff, organized geographically.

Instead of me billboarding this info, please follow this link and make sure that Team DHud is
comfortable finding the electrical connections so that we can work through validating them
together. (FSM Wiring Harness Naming Convention & Location information)

Meanwhile, I'll pull together some more information. I really want you to be able to crank
the engine over with the starter and *not* knock anything else offline for 3-5 minutes. (or worse!)
 
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Road Trip

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Meanwhile, I'll pull together some more information. I really want you to be able to crank
the engine over with the starter and *not* knock anything else offline for 3-5 minutes. (or worse!)

The factory grounding scheme in the engine bay is laid out in such a way that it's pretty easy
to end up with one of more missing connections, especially in the hard to see space between
the back side of the passenger cylinder head and the firewall. Check this out:

You must be registered for see images attach


EDIT: Here's a good real-world picture of what the above looks like, courtesy of @Caman96: (Ground setup in the vicinity of the transmission fill tube.)

Another important ground connection is on the same side of the engine, but up at the front
in the vicinity of where the old mechanical fuel pump used to reside:

You must be registered for see images attach



The above is a pretty decent overview of the ground implementation in the GMT400 engine bay, but it's not all-inclusive.
FWIW there's even more documentation in the FSM with the Ground Distribution diagrams and the VCM grounds.

My recommendation is that you reverify that all the grounds are clean, shiny metal to shiny metal, and the lowest possible
resistance connections possible. And given how the starter motor seems to be interacting with other electrical circuits, make
sure that the high current ground from the negative terminal of the battery to the engine block is 100%.

Best of luck - especially with those 2 year old twins in the house. :0)
 

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DHud

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The factory grounding scheme in the engine bay is laid out in such a way that it's pretty easy
to end up with one of more missing connections, especially in the hard to see space between
the back side of the passenger cylinder head and the firewall. Check this out:

You must be registered for see images attach


EDIT: Here's a good real-world picture of what the above looks like, courtesy of @Caman96: (Ground setup in the vicinity of the transmission fill tube.)

Another important ground connection is on the same side of the engine, but up at the front
in the vicinity of where the old mechanical fuel pump used to reside:

You must be registered for see images attach



The above is a pretty decent overview of the ground implementation in the GMT400 engine bay, but it's not all-inclusive.
FWIW there's even more documentation in the FSM with the Ground Distribution diagrams and the VCM.

My recommendation is that you reverify that all the grounds are clean, shiny metal to shiny metal, and the lowest possible
resistance connections possible. And given how the starter motor seems to be interacting with other electrical circuits, make
sure that the high current ground from the negative terminal of the battery to the engine block is 100%.

Best of luck - especially with those 2 year old twins in the house. :0)
This is really helpful in the Big Picture of troubleshooting things like this.

All grounds are shiny and tight and connected per the diagrams above on both the front of the engine and the rear - and so are all power leads coming from battery. I rechecked all of that the other day.

But I do have 2 quick questions:
1) The diagram you shared - Wiring System 8-431 - shows 3 grounds connecting to that bolt on the rear of the engine. The photo you linked to from Caman96 in the same post only shows 2 ground wires connecting to that bolt. My truck currently has the 2 wires and looks like Caman96's photo. Is there a 3rd? I don't recall any ground strap (#7 in the diagram) coming from above that connects to that bolt - and it doesn't appear that Caman96 has it there either.

2) Because we had the "wrong wire" disconnected from the Coil (the wire from the Distributor to the Coil) when we initially tried to crank the engine to build oil pressure - it sounds like there was a good chance we fried something upstream? What would have been damaged upstream in that process? And would that damaged component be causing the symptoms we are having?

Thanks! Hoping to spend some time this weekend going through all these steps...
 

Road Trip

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This is really helpful in the Big Picture of troubleshooting things like this.

All grounds are shiny and tight and connected per the diagrams above on both the front of the engine and the rear - and so are all power leads coming from battery. I rechecked all of that the other day.

Good stuff. I did read that previously, but when remote troubleshooting sometimes we have
to restate the obvious just to make sure that we are still on the same troubleshooting page.

But I do have 2 quick questions:
1) The diagram you shared - Wiring System 8-431 - shows 3 grounds connecting to that bolt on the rear of the engine. The photo you linked to from Caman96 in the same post only shows 2 ground wires connecting to that bolt. My truck currently has the 2 wires and looks like Caman96's photo. Is there a 3rd? I don't recall any ground strap (#7 in the diagram) coming from above that connects to that bolt - and it doesn't appear that Caman96 has it there either.

The Factory Service Manuals are the best documentation we have to work with, and
while I consider them to be very good, they are not an absolute reference. Actually,
oftentimes the very best reference out there is descriptive text and photos from fellow
GMT400 members. (Discovering this is what attracted me to joining this forum in the first place.)

That ground strap is a perfect example of what I'm trying to describe. To further this conversation, I took the
liberty of adding an arrow to Caman96's photo that points out his woven ground strap in the lower foreground:

You must be registered for see images attach

(credit: @Caman96 in Big 3 discussion elsewhere in this forum.)

FWIW, Caman96 has a really nice truck, and everything is pretty meticulous, so if his ground
strap routing doesn't match the factory drawings it's because he found a neater/cleaner way
to route it. :0)

By the way, if this ground strap is MIA on your 26 year old truck, that's quite possible. If it
was missing before and the truck still ran, then the powerplant must have found an undocumented
ground elsewhere, maybe through something like a worn motor mount? Or possibly the ground strap
was relocated by the PO? For more info on all this, just search the forum for "The Big 3", and there's
plenty of discussion about the these high current capable electrical cables.



2) Because we had the "wrong wire" disconnected from the Coil (the wire from the Distributor to the Coil) when we initially tried to crank the engine to build oil pressure - it sounds like there was a good chance we fried something upstream? What would have been damaged upstream in that process? And would that damaged component be causing the symptoms we are having?

Thanks! Hoping to spend some time this weekend going through all these steps...

To be perfectly candid, I've been puzzling over this. You made an earlier comment about retrieving
the ICM from the donor vehicle. Since you actually heard this combo run before you acquired the motor,
I think that this is a prudent idea, and covers an important variable.

And also keep in mind if my failure theory is correct (ie: excessive voltage in Coil secondary due to working
into an open circuit causing arcing/shorting back into the coil primary windings > ICM) ...then this means
that the Coil is also suspect. Maybe only wounded, but leads to the classic intermittent coil failure: works fine
at idle in the driveway at lower spark voltages, but fails when the pressure is on and spark voltage rises in response?

****

To cut through all the mumbo-jumbo, at this point I would focus on just getting your electrical system as close
as you can to what's in the Factory Service Manual. And the fact that the behavior of the truck has changed
(from lights returning 3-5 minutes after attempted cranking to lights never return?) is something we need to
really understand before continuing. When the electrical system is healthy and wired in accordance with the
factory wiring diagrams, I should be able to crank over the engine and at the same time not adversely affect
any other circuit? Or even if I do have something go wrong in the cranking circuit, it should still not affect
the dashlights/headlights?

So let's take a hard look at the electrical system in this truck, get any blown fuses documented/replaced,
headlights back on, ground strap (Big 3) identified/verified...and at some point we will be at the point where
we are going to attempt to crank the engine over with the starter (and spark plugs still out) and be able to
do so without causing any associated headlight misbehavior.

Who knows? We may discover that in all the excitement a couple of logically-unrelated wires got smashed
together during the engine swap, and finally all this will make sense. (As one of the few wrench-turners in the
neighborhood who would admit to knowing anything about electricity in public, I was always invited to post engine
swap parties like this back in the day. Never fun at the time, but the victory beers always tasted that much better
once we figured it out and the machine was making noise again. :0)

Hope this helps. Let us know what you discover, for that is what will make this thread truly valuable to
the community.

Cheers --
 
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Caman96

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Good stuff. I did read that previously, but when remote troubleshooting sometimes we have
to restate the obvious just to make sure that we are still on the same troubleshooting page.



The Factory Service Manuals are the best documentation we have to work with, and
while I consider them to be very good, they are not an absolute reference. Actually,
oftentimes the very best reference out there is descriptive text and photos from fellow
GMT400 members. (Discovering this is what attracted me to joining this forum in the first place.)

That ground strap is a perfect example of what I'm trying to describe. To further this conversation, I took the
liberty of adding an arrow to Caman96's photo that points out his woven ground strap in the lower foreground:

You must be registered for see images attach

(credit: @Caman96 in Big 3 discussion elsewhere in this forum.)

FWIW, Caman96 has a really nice truck, and everything is pretty meticulous, so if his ground
strap routing doesn't match the factory drawings it's because he found a neater/cleaner way
to route it. :0)

By the way, if this ground strap is MIA on your 26 year old truck, that's quite possible. If it
was missing before and the truck still ran, then the powerplant must have found an undocumented
ground elsewhere, maybe through something like a worn motor mount? Or possibly the ground strap
was relocated by the PO? For more info on all this, just search the forum for "The Big 3", and there's
plenty of discussion about the these high current capable electrical cables.





To be perfectly candid, I've been puzzling over this. You made an earlier comment about retrieving
the ICM from the donor vehicle. Since you actually heard this combo run before you acquired the motor,
I think that this is a prudent idea, and covers an important variable.

And also keep in mind if my failure theory is correct (ie: excessive voltage in Coil secondary due to working
into an open circuit causing arcing/shorting back into the coil primary windings > ICM) ...then this means
that the Coil is also suspect. Maybe only wounded, but leads to the classic intermittent coil failure: works fine
at idle in the driveway at lower spark voltages, but fails when the pressure is on and spark voltage rises in response?

****

To cut through all the mumbo-jumbo, at this point I would focus on just getting your electrical system as close
as you can to what's in the Factory Service Manual. And the fact that the behavior of the truck has changed
(from lights returning 3-5 minutes after attempted cranking to lights never return?) is something we need to
really understand before continuing. When the electrical system is healthy and wired in accordance with the
factory wiring diagrams, I should be able to crank over the engine and at the same time not adversely affect
any other circuit? Or even if I do have something go wrong in the cranking circuit, it should still not affect
the dashlights/headlights?

So let's take a hard look at the electrical system in this truck, get any blown fuses documented/replaced,
headlights back on, ground strap (Big 3) identified/verified...and at some point we will be at the point where
we are going to attempt to crank the engine over with the starter (and spark plugs still out) and be able to
do so without causing any headlight misbehavior.

Who knows? We may discover that in all the excitement a couple of logically-unrelated wires got smashed
together during the engine swap, and finally all this will make sense. (As one of the few wrench-turners in the
neighborhood who would admit to knowing anything about electricity in public, I was always invited to post engine
swap parties like this back in the day. Never fun at the time, but the beers always tasted that much better once
we figured it out and the machine was making noise again. :0)

Hope this helps. Let us know what you discover, for that is what will make this thread truly valuable to
the community.

Cheers --
I did run that strap in its original path.
You must be registered for see images attach

Same ground strap is the one on the right, it runs through that tube and out to passenger side head. Frame has since been painted!
 
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DHud

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I did run that strap in its original path.
Thanks @Caman96 for helping. The question I’m wondering is about that 3rd ground wire that appears as #7 in the diagram from post #54 above. I don’t believe I have a second braided wire coming from above. The only ones I have look like the picture of your engine - 2 grounds to that bolt. Is there a 3rd missing per the factory diagram (#7 in diagram)
 

Caman96

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Thanks @Caman96 for helping. The question I’m wondering is about that 3rd ground wire that appears as #7 in the diagram from post #54 above. I don’t believe I have a second braided wire coming from above. The only ones I have look like the picture of your engine - 2 grounds to that bolt. Is there a 3rd missing per the factory diagram (#7 in diagram)
Mine is the same, only 2 terminals to that stud. I highlighted the ground as blue, which is the one I have and actual photo above. I definitely don’t have the #7 ground I highlighted as RED. I am 99.99% sure that is how my 1996 K1500 came as I purchased truck from a Chevrolet Dealership who recently purchased/acquired from original owner with on 46k on it. Virtually everything was original on the truck when purchased.
You must be registered for see images attach
 
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DHud

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Mine is the same, only 2 terminals to that stud. I highlighted the ground as blue, which is the one I have and actual photo above. I definitely don’t have the #7 ground I highlighted as RED. I am 99.99% sure that is how my 1996 K1500 came as I purchased truck from a Chevrolet Dealership who recently purchased/acquired from original owner with on 46k on it. Virtually everything was original on the truck when purchased.
You must be registered for see images attach
Thank you! That answers my question - which means all my grounds are clean and correct and so are my power leads off the battery…
 
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