Putting a Caprice engine (L05-7) into a 92 g30 van (has L80e trans)

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Schurkey

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I'm a fan of the "TBI Caprice" piston, although in aftermarket form at least, has been sabotaged with .010-short compression height; but gained skirt coating.

The "TBI Caprice" piston may be the same flat-top piston as the LT1 small-blocks of the same era used. GM claimed 9.6 compression ratio in the Caprice "service replacement" "crate" engine.

They're priced very reasonably--although before Biden, they were an outright bargain--about $100 per set of eight. They're closing on double that, now.

Example:
 

Schurkey

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These look like they may do the trick. The 4.1 bore gives me .06 over the cylinder bore and the compressed thickness is .015. Any red flags with this?
Probably an excellent choice. Has a polymer coating, should make them less-sensitive to minor flaws on the deck and head surfaces.

.026 + .015 = .041. About as good as it gets without decking the block.

OTOH, decking the block to get it square is probably a good idea.
 

L31MaxExpress

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I'm a fan of the "TBI Caprice" piston, although in aftermarket form at least, has been sabotaged with .010-short compression height; but gained skirt coating.

The "TBI Caprice" piston may be the same flat-top piston as the LT1 small-blocks of the same era used. GM claimed 9.6 compression ratio in the Caprice "service replacement" "crate" engine.

They're priced very reasonably--although before Biden, they were an outright bargain--about $100 per set of eight. They're closing on double that, now.

Example:
Basically the same piston design except the GM Mahle piston is not 0.010" reduced CH and it is a light weight piston. The LT1/ZZ4 piston weighs what a 305 Vortec piston weighs thus making a 305 crank a near perfect choice balance wise.

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Erik the Awful

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tl;dr
1) If you run a regular .039+" gasket you'll have terrible quench.
2) You can run the .015" gasket as-is and get a sub-optimal quench.
3) You can get the block decked and perfect the quench.

In depth:
First I plugged in the pistons Schurkey proposed, but in a 4.040" bore (H597DCP40 - note that they use uncommon piston rings) and the .015" stamped head gasket, a stock 9.025 deck height, stock rods, and a 65cc combustion chamber. The Summit listing doesn't list the piston volume, so I threw in the 13cc you asked for. Fortunately I already have the Summit 8800 cam in my spreadsheet, so I didn't have to plug in specs.

The spreadsheet gives a piston depth of .035", a quench distance of .050", a static CR of 9.26:1 and a dynamic CR of 6.85:1 that can be brought up to 7.01:1 by advancing the cam 6 degrees. Decking the block .010" will bring the quench right to .040" with a static CR of 9.46:1 and a dynamic CR of 6.99:1

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Running the same combination, but with a .039" Fel-Pro Permatorque head gasket and a 8.990 deck height (stock block decked .035") gives a very nice .039" quench distance with a 9.48:1 static CR and a 7:1 dynamic CR. Without decking the block the quench distance is .074" - twice what you want.

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Danboquist

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tl;dr
1) If you run a regular .039+" gasket you'll have terrible quench.
2) You can run the .015" gasket as-is and get a sub-optimal quench.
3) You can get the block decked and perfect the quench.

In depth:
First I plugged in the pistons Schurkey proposed, but in a 4.040" bore (H597DCP40 - note that they use uncommon piston rings) and the .015" stamped head gasket, a stock 9.025 deck height, stock rods, and a 65cc combustion chamber. The Summit listing doesn't list the piston volume, so I threw in the 13cc you asked for. Fortunately I already have the Summit 8800 cam in my spreadsheet, so I didn't have to plug in specs.

The spreadsheet gives a piston depth of .035", a quench distance of .050", a static CR of 9.26:1 and a dynamic CR of 6.85:1 that can be brought up to 7.01:1 by advancing the cam 6 degrees. Decking the block .010" will bring the quench right to .040" with a static CR of 9.46:1 and a dynamic CR of 6.99:1

You must be registered for see images attach


Running the same combination, but with a .039" Fel-Pro Permatorque head gasket and a 8.990 deck height (stock block decked .035") gives a very nice .039" quench distance with a 9.48:1 static CR and a 7:1 dynamic CR. Without decking the block the quench distance is .074" - twice what you want.

You must be registered for see images attach
Very interesting. Thank you.
 

Danboquist

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The Felpro instructions for the 1094 head gasket says "If your surface finish is (rough) or has gouges across the surface, a sealer must be applied to both sides of the gasket."
So I thought.. ok.. a little more insurance.. I sprayed Permatex Copper Gasket Maker/Sealer on one of the gaskets and the rubber coating just melted off.. Great..

There is something that I'm not getting. If
A. The stock distance from the top of the piston to the block deck in a SBC is .25-.26
B. The desired quench (from top of piston to bottom of head) = ~ .040
=> Wouldn't the stock engine require a .015 head gasket?
 
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Schurkey

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There is something that I'm not getting. If
A. The stock distance from the top of the piston to the block deck in a SBC is .25-.26
B. The desired quench (from top of piston to bottom of head) = ~ .040
=> Wouldn't the stock engine require a .015 head gasket?

The stock engine wasn't built with quench in mind.
Sure it was. The engineers who designed engines knew about quench/squish. There were problems later that caused..."bad decisions"...on multiple levels and from several parties. The primary being that in the early emissions-control days, the engineers got all scared about the hydrocarbons trapped in the "crevice volume"; and so they kinda screwed-the-pooch removing quench. Mopar, and Buick small-block made totally-open chambers for some applications, no deliberate quench at all. Buick big-blocks have the piston so far down the hole it's unbelievable. BBC went from "closed chamber" heads with quench on both sides, to "open chamber" heads with quench only on one side, and everyone went to composition head gaskets partly due to crappy, high-speed machining, partly to better-accommodate warpage, partly because of "lightweight" castings that had a history of cracking, maybe for other reasons.

Point being, if you remove quench, the chamber burns all the way across, and there's far less unburned hydrocarbons trapped in the remaining crevice volume. Problem is, you get a crappy, lazy burn that requires a heap of spark advance and promotes excess wasted heat. It was a bad trade-off, but that's the compromise that was chosen. Don't blame me, they didn't ask my permission.

Go back in time far enough, and you'll find shitloads of 265, 283, 307, 327 engines all built with ~.015 steel shim gaskets just like what Fel-Pro is selling, except without the rubbery coating. They were bare steel, installed with "sealer" which--often as not--was "aluminum" spray paint. I'm not sure the SBC came with any other head gasket besides the embossed steel shim prior to the 350 in '67. Steel shim gaskets may or may not have been used after that. I just don't remember.

Same deal for BBC--the first of 'em--396, 427--were made with a BBC version of the steel shim gasket. Same deal--had to apply some kind of "sealer".

Oldsmobile used steel shim gaskets.
Buick used steel shim gaskets.

I'm not sure about Pontiac or Cadillac. I suspect that the same kind of steel shim gaskets were used in some applications by Mopar, Ford, and maybe AMC, but I have no experience there.

Steel shim gaskets went out-of-favor, which is a damned shame. They were dirt-cheap, and preserved quench. OTOH, they resulted in stock-replacement piston manufacturers sabotaging piston compression height, because if you decked a block to clean-up warpage, rust, or any sort of scarring, even a .010 skim-cut would reduce the quench distance from .040 to .030 nominal, maybe less depending on production-line machining variations. Yeah, the machining was even worse in the '50s to the '70s. At some point the piston hits the head and causes grief--so the piston people dropped the piston even farther into the hole to prevent warranty claims.

And then .040 composition head gaskets got popular. Folks who never had problems with quench/squish and therefore never understood how important it is...suddenly had NO quench/squish. And we blamed the piss-poor performance on "smog controls" because it's easy to blame stuff you can see instead of understanding what's actually happening.

I'm not saying that early emissions control devices didn't hurt power. I'm saying that they didn't hurt power as much as folks think they hurt power; the real problem(s) were buried deeper than just an EGR valve and AIR pump.




Thousands of years ago (certainly in the prior century) I contacted Mr Gasket about buying a run of steel shim gaskets for Olds and Buick and such. They told me they would not make a production run of them for me, but they would sell me the male and female stampers. Well, yeah, that's fine, but there's more to making the gaskets than just the stampers. I passed.
 
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Danboquist

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Two issues:

1) Not paying enough attention, I replaced the double timing chain setup with a new single timing chain. Could this be a big problem?

2) With the heads on and bolts in hand tight, and the engine at TDC, I threw in a pushrod that came out of the engine (flat tappet setup) and it looks way long.
The first pic is without a pushrod.. the second pic shows with a pushrod.. seems way too long. Rockers are loose. Thoughts?
 

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