Control arm cam bolt kits - why so many choices?

[someotherguy]

I realized after buying essentially a complete new front end for the '93 C3500 dually, even the tool for doing the knockouts.. that I didn't get the cam bolt kit. So I go to look 'em up, and there's 13 choices. Some are no-brainers - the "economy" stuff, I'm skipping, so that narrows it to just 7 choices.

Mevotech with ± 2.00°
Delphi no specs
Dorman no specs
Moog "HD" "improved design" ± 2-1/4°
Moog ± 2-1/4°
Moog greaseable ± 2-1/4°
ACDelco ± 2-1/4°

The greaseable look interesting, but do they really need to be greased? Seems like you set 'n forget, and they don't need to be adjusted for a long time. They're only a few bucks more than the non-greaseable, not enough to worry about.

Do I even need to replace them? I thought it was just the very early trucks that came with regular bolts that once you did the knock-outs, you had to replace the regular bolts with camber bolts. My '93 already has the offset washers from factory, so I'm assuming - it would also have the bolts with the flat machined into them to accommodate those offset washers.

Richard

 

[fancyTBI]

For what it’s worth I did not replace mine on the ‘95. I cleaned them up with scotch brite and did the same for the frame mounts and moved on. They are tight and don’t move. Greased versions are interesting… I don’t see the reason.

If it’s got the cam washers it has the flat bar style bolt I’d assume. If you replace them they will match your new suspension components but won’t match your truck

 

[454cid]

You didn't disqualify Dorman, because Dorman???

I'd probably go for Moog. Amazon claims the MOOG K6302HD is US made, although their info regarding country of orgin is not always accurate. While looking (for my K3500) I noticed some kits had much heavier looking hardware, such as the Moog HD, but others too.

 

[Drunkcanuk]

I realized after buying essentially a complete new front end for the '93 C3500 dually, even the tool for doing the knockouts.. that I didn't get the cam bolt kit. So I go to look 'em up, and there's 13 choices. Some are no-brainers - the "economy" stuff, I'm skipping, so that narrows it to just 7 choices.

Mevotech with ± 2.00°
Delphi no specs
Dorman no specs
Moog "HD" "improved design" ± 2-1/4°
Moog ± 2-1/4°
Moog greaseable ± 2-1/4°
ACDelco ± 2-1/4°

The greaseable look interesting, but do they really need to be greased? Seems like you set 'n forget, and they don't need to be adjusted for a long time. They're only a few bucks more than the non-greaseable, not enough to worry about.

Do I even need to replace them? I thought it was just the very early trucks that came with regular bolts that once you did the knock-outs, you had to replace the regular bolts with camber bolts. My '93 already has the offset washers from factory, so I'm assuming - it would also have the bolts with the flat machined into them to accommodate those offset washers.

Richard

I would probably stay away from a greaseable one, seems like something you want solid and not drilled out and hollow.
I wouldn't think you would need to replace them unless you were lowering it and needed more adjustment for alignment.
If you were just doing stork replacement stuff, id put the stock ones back in..they have lasted this long. And are made from probably anything better than what's available now.

 

[someotherguy]

For what it’s worth I did not replace mine on the ‘95. I cleaned them up with scotch brite and did the same for the frame mounts and moved on. They are tight and don’t move. Greased versions are interesting… I don’t see the reason.

If it’s got the cam washers it has the flat bar style bolt I’d assume. If you replace them they will match your new suspension components but won’t match your truck

Big question is, what's the amount of adjustment available with the stock bolts, and are these replacement ones with 2-1/4° of adjustment better?

You didn't disqualify Dorman, because Dorman???

I'd probably go for Moog. Amazon claims the MOOG K6302HD is US made, although their info regarding country of orgin is not always accurate. While looking (for my K3500) I noticed some kits had much heavier looking hardware, such as the Moog HD, but others too.

Yeah.. Dorman is out automatically, because Dorman.. as is the Delphi with no specs listed. Not sure why Mevotech only has up to 2° of adjustment while the others are 2-1/4°, though.

I would probably stay away from a greaseable one, seems like something you want solid and not drilled out and hollow.
I wouldn't think you would need to replace them unless you were lowering it and needed more adjustment for alignment.
If you were just doing stork replacement stuff, id put the stock ones back in..they have lasted this long. And are made from probably anything better than what's available now.

I do wonder about the amount of adjustment stock '93 parts vs. these aftermarkets. When the guy did the initial "get it close" alignment after I dropped it, and he showed me how bad the control arm bushings were - he didn't say anything about the camber/caster being an issue getting it where he wanted.

By the way, I know I mentioned it before, but it's a little tricky to judge just how bad your LCA bushings are until you see it on the alignment rack and you're under it in the pit. Makes it much easier to see just how offset the bushing center is from the bolt. Mine are trashed.

Richard

 

[Drunkcanuk]

Big question is, what's the amount of adjustment available with the stock bolts, and are these replacement ones with 2-1/4° of adjustment better?


Yeah.. Dorman is out automatically, because Dorman.. as is the Delphi with no specs listed. Not sure why Mevotech only has up to 2° of adjustment while the others are 2-1/4°, though.


I do wonder about the amount of adjustment stock '93 parts vs. these aftermarkets. When the guy did the initial "get it close" alignment after I dropped it, and he showed me how bad the control arm bushings were - he didn't say anything about the camber/caster being an issue getting it where he wanted.

By the way, I know I mentioned it before, but it's a little tricky to judge just how bad your LCA bushings are until you see it on the alignment rack and you're under it in the pit. Makes it much easier to see just how offset the bushing center is from the bolt. Mine are trashed.

Richard

Have you looked at Belltech?
Seems like going with ones from a lowering company would be they way to go on a lowered truck.

 

[someotherguy]

Have you looked at Belltech?
Seems like going with ones from a lowering company would be they way to go on a lowered truck.

They don't have anything. Under "components - accessories - alignment kits" they just have pinion angle shims and carrier bearing spacers. It must be that the adjustment available with OEM/aftermarket stuff is enough. Like I said, the alignment guy didn't have a problem with my truck as-is after I dropped it, so I'm not -expecting- issues, but since I'll have the whole front end blown apart and replacing everything, I'll naturally be doing the knockouts.

I can't believe these parts have been sitting here more than a year now (other than the brakes, which got done almost immediately.) Too many projects, plus all the time the truck spent in transmission jail, as well as all the other things it needed to be roadworthy. It drives reasonably OK now but it is a bit wiggly on weird road surfaces.

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Richard

 

[Schurkey]

1. I've got some trouble believing that the eccentrics and bolts are genuinely different among the various brands--except for the "greaseable" ones.

2. I have NO idea why they even offer "greaseable" bolts. There's nothing in there that should be greased. Rubber (stock or stock-style) bushings should never be greased. Aftermarket Polyurethane or other "plastic" (Delrin, etc.) bushings might need to be greased, but you can't do it from the bolt--the grease would have to penetrate the inner steel sleeve to get to the bushing that would need the grease.

3. If you have the original eccentrics and the appropriate bolts, there's no need to buy new ones. The originals should be fine for re-use although they may need to be cleaned-up. They're not a moving part once tightened-down, they don't wear although they'd maybe rust some.

4. Geometry being what it is, the amount of adjustment can only go so far. At some point you'd run out of slot length, the length of the slot is what would ultimately limit the adjustment.

5. IF (big IF) the suspension and steering components are in top condition; the bushings are in good condition, and the frame isn't bent...the original camber/caster positioning of the alignment eccentrics should result in "as new" camber/caster alignment. As it turns out, my '88 K1500 has the eccentrics welded to the bracket. I considered cutting them free, and punching-out what I assume would be knockouts in the brackets...but in the end I just left 'em alone. What was good enough when the truck was new is good enough for me now. Toe, of course, is adjusted separately.

 

[454cid]

Regarding greasing, the only benefit I can see would be during adjustment. The grease would keep the bolts from possibly seizing in the steel bushing sleeves. Probably not as applicable to a TX truck.

 

[someotherguy]

1. I've got some trouble believing that the eccentrics and bolts are genuinely different among the various brands--except for the "greaseable" ones.

2. I have NO idea why they even offer "greaseable" bolts. There's nothing in there that should be greased. Rubber (stock or stock-style) bushings should never be greased. Aftermarket Polyurethane or other "plastic" (Delrin, etc.) bushings might need to be greased, but you can't do it from the bolt--the grease would have to penetrate the inner steel sleeve to get to the bushing that would need the grease.

3. If you have the original eccentrics and the appropriate bolts, there's no need to buy new ones. The originals should be fine for re-use although they may need to be cleaned-up. They're not a moving part once tightened-down, they don't wear although they'd maybe rust some.

4. Geometry being what it is, the amount of adjustment can only go so far. At some point you'd run out of slot length, the length of the slot is what would ultimately limit the adjustment.

5. IF (big IF) the suspension and steering components are in top condition; the bushings are in good condition, and the frame isn't bent...the original camber/caster positioning of the alignment eccentrics should result in "as new" camber/caster alignment. As it turns out, my '88 K1500 has the eccentrics welded to the bracket. I considered cutting them free, and punching-out what I assume would be knockouts in the brackets...but in the end I just left 'em alone. What was good enough when the truck was new is good enough for me now. Toe, of course, is adjusted separately.

I'm with you on all those points. Even with the worn parts, destroyed bushings, and knockouts in place, the alignment shop got it pretty close. I knew I'd soon need to replace pretty much everything, having done the drop kit I knew it would need alignment right away or I could potentially tear up my new tires. Picking an order of operations for this truck has been tricky as it has needed SO much work. The tires were a necessary "first thing" because the old ones were dangerously bad, and also too tall.

Since I'll have everything apart for the suspension rebuild, I see no reason to skip doing the knockouts. Additionally, I don't want to count on aftermarket parts coming in at the same potential range of settings as the OEM stuff, so I'll want the knockouts out of the way in case the alignment shop needs that extra amount of adjustment available.

Seems like the consensus is, stick with the original cam bolt setup.

Richard