How does electronic timing advance work on a TBI distributor?

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GoToGuy

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Every time you disconnect the battery it wipes the codes. Your path for ECM communication is the ALD plug, Also known as the OBD 1 plug. You have to get the OBD plug up and running. That's you communicate. Without it your deaf, dumb and blind.
If you don't have the OE factory service manuals you've got one hand tied behind you. See sticky above or search in forum for service manuals , in the thread you'll find the free PDF links for your year truck. If there more than one get them all you'll need them. Whichever book has Chapter 8 , get it open and start reading at 8-1. It's electrical, the service starts the basics . Read it, it make electrical more clear.
Electricity is like water. The battery is the dam feeding water into circuits. Water allways seeks the lowest ground. That helped me long ago.
 

phantom 309

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i need a little help understanding what you actually did, and swapped what?
which distributor are u using? what is an ems plug and play 7427 ecm?
 

MANIAC

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Okay so after a little more playing around with my truck here's what I found I not getting any 5v reference from the ECM to the ICM like before, I can also unplug the IAC and the TPS and the truck still starts and idle isn't any different plus timing doesn't change it stays at base timing but what I'm wondering now is what I need to look at considering the pre mentioned sensors are not doing what they are supposed to so if anyone has some advice on what I should look at considering what I've found id appreciate it because it's so close to running and I really don't want to get rid of this thing since it's all I have and I've poured the last year into trying to get this thing running
 

MANIAC

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i need a little help understanding what you actually did, and swapped what?
which distributor are u using? what is an ems plug and play 7427 ecm?
Also what I did was swap a vortec 350 in place of the TBI 350 with the adapted plenum to keep the TBI throttle body and the ems7427 ECM was the ECM I had to buy from rock auto and install just to get this thing to where it would start i even had to cross match the serial numbers to make sure I got the right one
 

MANIAC

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Every time you disconnect the battery it wipes the codes. Your path for ECM communication is the ALD plug, Also known as the OBD 1 plug. You have to get the OBD plug up and running. That's you communicate. Without it your deaf, dumb and blind.
If you don't have the OE factory service manuals you've got one hand tied behind you. See sticky above or search in forum for service manuals , in the thread you'll find the free PDF links for your year truck. If there more than one get them all you'll need them. Whichever book has Chapter 8 , get it open and start reading at 8-1. It's electrical, the service starts the basics . Read it, it make electrical more clear.
Electricity is like water. The battery is the dam feeding water into circuits. Water allways seeks the lowest ground. That helped me long ago.
Thank you I will look into that later today when I get a chance to sit down again but I also have no idea what causes the obd1 port not to function I even bought a code reader specifically for it because it's a 95 with the obd1 port or obd1.5 I got it to go into diag mode one time when I first got the truck which it didn't run then either but if looking into what you recommended will help then I have nothing to lose by looking into it
 

MANIAC

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Okay so I'm in the process of trying to diag the obd1 port and so far here's what I got white/blk stripe has a little less than 5v and the tan wire has about 5.5v I don't know what those are supposed to be but i imagine it's supposed to be 12 so now I gotta start either tracing those wire to find a break in the wire or I gotta run new wire and save myself a major headache I've been researching all night and I'm just barely starting to comprehend the electrical diagrams the only problem is I can't find the specific information as far as what wires are supposed to have certain voltage but I do think I'm getting close to figuring it out thanks in advance for anymore information guys
 

MANIAC

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I'm still messing with this stupid truck and while testing for power at the obd1 port I found that the M terminal shows 5v and after messing with it a bit more I found that the B terminal shows 9.5v and the A terminal has ground but it doesn't zero out on the voltmeter and after doing all of that the truck stopped firing the injectors and the fuel pump stayed on with the key at the on position and it kept doing that until i disconnected my battery and removed the fuel pump relay once i plugged everything back in and reconnected the battery then it went back to normal but still with no timing advance and now i think im more confused than before this just keeps getting weirder the more i mess with it
 

99xcss4

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it really is pure F'n magic just make shore that this never happens because the only way to fix it is to replace it with new parts when it breaks
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Road Trip

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Also what I did was swap a vortec 350 in place of the TBI 350 with the adapted plenum to keep the TBI throttle body and the ems7427 ECM was the ECM I had to buy from rock auto and install just to get this thing to where it would start i even had to cross match the serial numbers to make sure I got the right one

Greetings MANIAC,

For me the engine swap changes the troubleshooting approach. To explain, if we are working on a
GMT400 that's completely factory original in the engine bay, and is suffering a malfunction, our default
mindset is to find the one component/wire/signal that is not working per specification. (Assumption is
everything is innocent until proven guilty.)

On the other hand, when we are dealing with an engine swap, a single detail difference can create a
difficult to sort out project logjam. Or worse, overlapping showstoppers hide progress, and can really
discourage the DIY'er. In other words, when troubleshooting an engine swap, the assumption needs
to be that everything is bad until proven good. (Not calling out your workmanship, just an observation
based upon helping with getting engine swaps up & running over the years.)


Okay so I'm in the process of trying to diag the obd1 port and so far here's what I got white/blk stripe has a little less than 5v and the tan wire has about 5.5v I don't know what those are supposed to be but i imagine it's supposed to be 12 so now I gotta start either tracing those wire to find a break in the wire or I gotta run new wire and save myself a major headache I've been researching all night and I'm just barely starting to comprehend the electrical diagrams the only problem is I can't find the specific information as far as what wires are supposed to have certain voltage but I do think I'm getting close to figuring it out thanks in advance for anymore information guys

First things first. Let's define a couple of voltages, who makes them, and the hints that these discrete voltages mean to you.

* Approx. 12.6v-14.5v -- Battery Voltage. ~12.6v = fully charged battery, engine off. ~14.5v = engine on, alternator at goal voltage.

* 5 volts -- Regulated computer voltage used inside ECM/PCM. Also used as a reference voltage for most sensors, and also to communicate
with the scan tool via the under dash DLC. (Data Link Connector) Note: Also referred to as the ALDL or (retroactively named) OBD1 connector.

So here's a wiring diagram for the PCM (7427) equipped vehicle taken from the '95 Factory Service Manual:

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So when you jumper Pin A to Pin B in the underdash connector, what you are actually
doing is grounding Pin B on the connector so that we can tell the computer (via Pin A1)
to go into diagnostic mode. So according to this diagram we need to ensure that the
all-critical PCM to Engine grounds are good. If there's any flakiness with these grounds
then we may or may not be able to control the computer to communicate with your scan tool.

NOTE: Pin A to Pin B puts us into diagnostic mode. But on the PCM the serial data
is sent to Pin M via the TAN wire, and if this isn't wired to pin F9 then no joy.

Now, since we're doing an engine swap, we can't assume that Pin M is wired correctly.
Why? Well, if at some time in the past there was an ECM installed (think gas engine/5-spd manual)
then Pin 'E' on the DLC connector is what was used on one end of the ORaNge wire to Pin A8 on the computer:


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****

I'll stop here and give you a chance to verify that your wiring matches your computer setup.
Once we get reliable communications between your computer and your scan tool, then we
will be in a much stronger troubleshooting position.

Best of luck --

PS -- I posted these pages from the '95 FSM for Driveability, Emissions, & Wiring -- as
mentioned previously, downloading the '95 FSMs is like cheating to win -- it will be really
helpful for a project like yours.
 
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Supercharged111

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it really is pure F'n magic just make shore that this never happens because the only way to fix it is to replace it with new parts when it breaks
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You need to get with the times, we cracked that nut years ago.

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