Slow Roller

[nineno]

Yep, same truck. It eventually became the all-black wrecker you may have seen me post already in other threads.

I'll check it out. Based on the pics here in this thread it looks like a cool and capable work truck that was brought back from the brink. Very cool.

The gap you notice due to the fitment to the frame? It closes up when you tighten the bottom bolts.

I used the McGaughy's notches on my truck (like the Summit link above). I bought those for their complete frame coverage design (fits over the frame top and bottom), and their notch part looked a little sturdier to me. When installing, I pushed them up as high as they would go (bolted the bottom in first), and did end up with a very slight gap on the top rails.

Rich (@FLGS400) - I liked the McGaughy's notch design a bit more, also, and for all the same reasons you pointed out. (I will say, the DJM steel thickness is comical. It's 3/8" plate, I think.)

The two details that caused me to stick with the DJM notch were:
1- not wanting to trim the bed cross rails -- admittedly a bit silly since I had just hacked the frame up!
2 - how much wider the C-profile of the McGaughy's notch was than the frame rail of the truck, and the apparent need for a shim. (I'll elaborate, below.)

Richard (@someotherguy) - My original description of what I was seeing with the notch width versus the frame width wasn't good, so I'm going to try this again with some added detail for you and Rich (FLGS400).

When I was preparing to notch my frame the inner width of the trailing/back end of the McG's notch was 1/4" wider than the outer width of the truck frame. I believe the truck frame tapers after the axle. The McG's notch assembly had holes in the bottom plates (before and after the notch) so that it could be bolted to the bottom of the frame rail.

This did not appear to fit my 1989 frame, and because I bought these (unused, in-box) from someone else, I assumed that I had a part that was not meant for a 1500 frame - maybe it was for a 2500 frame? (I had/have no idea how the frame thickness compares.)

At the time (early 2021?) I did do a little YouTube research, though. Here is a screen capture from a YouTube video that I've embedded below.

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The back of the truck is to the left. On the left, you can see a shim just below the tail light wiring harness and on the right you can see a thinner shim just behind the gas tank. This, in combination with the necessary bed modifications, encouraged me to stick with the DJM notches.

The good news is that I did, in fact, have notches for a C1500 OBS. More good news is that what I was experiencing was exactly the same as what the PowerNation crew was seeing!

Rich (FLGS400) - It seems like the difference is width that you experienced was much less significant. Is that true?

As a general question: Did the back end of 1500 OBS frames change during the production run? Do later trucks have wider ("taller") frame rails, or rails that don't taper towards the back? Perhaps the McG's parts were designed around a later frame revision?

I'll try to remember to throw a tape measure across the spare McG's notches and the frame rails of my truck to quantify my perception of a mismatch. There are certainly a lot of trucks with these parts installed, so this is likely "much ado about nothing," but it's very interesting to compare experiances.

For anyone interested in the whole video, it's embedded below. The screen capture above is at the 11m31s mark.

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Thanks for all the insights, guys!

 

[someotherguy]

Not the best pic (was taken for a different reason) but there was a gap, and it does indeed close up. Whether the notch bends to the frame or the frame bends to the notch, LOL..

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I didn't notch the bed cross rail, didn't even occur to me to do so. It's a minor difference and the cab is already somewhat mismatched to the bed due to needing cab mounts, which is kind of a common failure once the trucks get this old. Maybe if I ever get around to doing the cab mounts, I'll throw a shim in there to boost the cab a little.

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Speaking of shims and notch brackets, I could just cut a couple pieces out from this spare notch bracket that Belltech mis-packaged in my kit! It appears to be a 1500 piece instead of the 2500/3500 pieces I needed, was considerably shorter than my frame height and also much lighter, by several pounds. No idea how it made it into my kit package, but BT sent me the correct part quickly and didn't ask me to send this one back.

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Richard

 

[FLGS400]

Rich (@FLGS400) - I liked the McGaughy's notch design a bit more, also, and for all the same reasons you pointed out. (I will say, the DJM steel thickness is comical. It's 3/8" plate, I think.)

The two details that caused me to stick with the DJM notch were:
1- not wanting to trim the bed cross rails -- admittedly a bit silly since I had just hacked the frame up!
2 - how much wider the C-profile of the McGaughy's notch was than the frame rail of the truck, and the apparent need for a shim. (I'll elaborate, below.)

Rich (FLGS400) - It seems like the difference is width that you experienced was much less significant. Is that true?

There was definitely a difference in width when compared to the frame. If I remember right, the top side of the frame rail on my truck looked like it dipped down there a wee bit, too. The difference stayed in the back of my mind for a while, until I drove it with the notches. Huge difference in ride quality!

Here's a couple of photo's from my thread on the truck:

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You can see the height difference after installation, though these pictures make it look much larger than the difference really is. Note that I have really short bumpers in it for as much suspension travel as possible.

 

[someotherguy]

There was definitely a difference in width when compared to the frame. If I remember right, the top side of the frame rail on my truck looked like it dipped down there a wee bit, too. The difference stayed in the back of my mind for a while, until I drove it with the notches. Huge difference in ride quality!

Here's a couple of photo's from my thread on the truck:

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You can see the height difference after installation, though these pictures make it look much larger than the difference really is. Note that I have really short bumpers in it for as much suspension travel as possible.

The short bumpstops are critical. Don't know why BT supplied these huge beehives (the pale yellow parts next to the notches) with my 3500 kit, as they didn't leave room for any travel at all.

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I bought some really short ones from Energy Suspension, less than $15.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CN9DIK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Richard

 

[Anchor]

Good write-up I look forward to your progress.

 

[Supercharged111]

Here's the pedal I scored with the Hydroboost unit. Glad I took it because I didn't know that the pedal ratio was different between a vac-assisted system and the HB system. (Note the placement of the pin that pushed the master cylinder linkage.) I may have more to discuss on this as I get closer to reinstalling the brake lines, etc.

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Here's one more shot from the body shop. The passenger side of the bed has a little "heavy rub" mark that needed a some touch-up.

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The last few images are one of of the smartest things I've done on this truck. I'm sure everyone that's pulled the engine isolators out of one of these trucks will find this amusing...
As mentioned in post 1, the truck was a V6 originally. And while there was no engine in it when I got it, the engine mounts were in it. I went to take them out - assuming that the frame was pierce-threaded like the brake line clips, or that there were weld nuts inside the frame. I learned, quickly, that there are nuts inside the frame that need to be held on to. (For all of the simple and eloquent solutions on these trucks, the engine isolator nuts is a pretty crazy-bad choice.)

Since I knew I was going to yank the entire OE suspension, this wasn't a huge deal. After I got the suspension off the truck, I busted out my trusty dial caliper and...umm...tracing paper. I figured out where all 5 holes were relative to one another and made a nut plate. I included all 5 holes because I didn't know which I would need and which I wouldn't.

Here's a view from the top. Doesn't look too special...

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Here's a view from the bottom.

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As long as I don't take all 5 out at the same time, I'm good. I've had many (maaany) cobbled-up engine mounts in and out of the truck, and these nut plates have been a life saver. At some point I should have drilled a small (1/4") hole through the frame in the center of the bolt pattern. That would have allowed me to tack weld the plate to the frame and not have to play the "always leave 1 -- preferable 2 -- bolts in the plate" game.

Certainly not rocket science, but one of those things that made me feel like I have a little something going on upstairs.
Here's a screen capture of the CAD file.

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Painted truck pics, coming soon-ish.

Why not pop 2 more holes in there and bolt/rivet that thing to the truck? Then it'd stay even if you removed all 5.

 

[FLGS400]

The short bumpstops are critical. Don't know why BT supplied these huge beehives (the pale yellow parts next to the notches) with my 3500 kit, as they didn't leave room for any travel at all.

I bought some really short ones from Energy Suspension, less than $15.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CN9DIK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yeah, McGaughy's supplied the same ones in black with my notches. I thought to myself wow, all that work to install the notches and these bumpers take away more than half that extra travel. The ones I used are exactly the same as your link, and I got them from Amazon, too.

 

[nineno]

...these huge beehive [ed. bump stops]...didn't leave room for any travel at all.

BellTech's idea of a teenie-tiny helper spring? (Kidding, of course.)

Good write-up I look forward to your progress.

Thank you, Anchor. Much appreciated. If I can get a few more pictures, I'll round-out my last post or two on paint/body/exterior hardware details, so far.

Why not pop 2 more holes in there and bolt/rivet that thing to the truck? Then it'd stay even if you removed all 5.

Later in that posting I came to the same conclusion, Supercharged111. My proposed solution was to drill a small hole in the frame and just tack-weld the nut plate in place, but you're also absolutely right. I could add a feature to the nut plate that allows it to be screwed/riveted in place without interfering with the normal (V8) engine isolator.

---

Rich (@FLGS400) and Richard (@someotherguy) - Excellent details on the BellTech and McGaughy's notch options and how they fit with the frame, etc. Thanks for sharing your respective experiences and pics.

I guess one other detail that we didn't touch on is that the frame narrows (left/right) in that region, also. All of these notch kits end up trying to straighten the frame out when they're installed. I was a bit perplexed by that when I realized it, but clearly I just rolled with it and wrenched the frame notches in.

 

[nineno]

Since I made a point to mention the Majestic brand rear window, here are a few more pictures of it…in the cold spring rain.

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Some of the first orders of business with the truck back home was to re-install the exterior door handles and weatherstripping. For right or wrong, I bought most of this from LMC Truck (aka Long Motor Corp).

I've read a fair amount of vitriol related to LMC, and I get why. Many of the parts that I got from them (exterior door handles, in particular) are rather poor reproductions. Their prices are mediocre, and frankly, if I had purchased the cheapest possible knock-offs on Amazon, I probably would have gotten the same exact parts. So, shame on me. In the end, I chose the convenience of LMC’s site. To be fair, their site is very good.

The LMC-sourced door handles required some massaging to get the brand new Stratec (OE-supplier) lock barrels installed and retained. Be prepared to use a tiny file and possibly a Dremel with various grinders and wire brushes if you find yourself attempting this.

The plastic trim ring (gasket?) for the door handles was ill-fitting and required some modification on both side. The fitment of this trim ring was somewhat worse on the driver side. In fact, the fitment of the driver side handle to the door was worse in general, by a rather wide margin. Frankly, I’m unsatisfied with how they sit in the door, but they’re in now. Maybe I’ll refinish the OE parts and install those someday. (I would need to figure out a replacement for the plastic trim/gasket ring, though.)

Below is a picture that shows the fitment of the exterior driver door handle (left) compared to the passenger door handle. The passenger side does not sit properly (nominally flush) with the door skin on the bottom edge. The driver side handle does not sit properly in/on the door along any edge, as you can see in the picture.

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The LMC-supplied weather stripping and rubber bits, while different than OE, don’t seem awful. The exterior belt line seal on the window did require some trimming and notching to make it fit right, but that was all pretty straight forward.

Also on the topic of doors...
The body shop did install the new hinge bushings and pins that I provided while installing the 1991 doors…but they did not re-install the door springs. This is probably because the driver side roller pins was badly mangled. I had forgotten this along the way. (Shame on me for waiting 3 years between dismantling the truck and having the body work done.) So, after the truck was painted, I hacked out the OE roller pins and installed the Cunningham Machine roller pin setup. It went together nicely after I massaged the original roller pins out. In hindsight, I should have installed a nice stainless steel button head cap screw rather than the zinc plated bolt they provide. (Free suggestion for an upgrade, Cunningham!)

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Of course, I should have gone to the body shop when the doors were off and cut the old roller pin out before the truck was primed and painted. I wish the guys at the shop had thought to call me and say "you do know that the roller pin(s) on the door(s) are all jacked up, right…?"

However, since I have some paint touch-up to do anyway, this is just par for the course and another learning experience.
With the new roller pin, and cam arm installed, I turned my attention to the actual door spring. That was an adventure...

If you’re going to attempt replacing the door springs with consumer-grade tools…it sorta sucks. My strong recommendation is – at a minimum – to buy the Dorman door spring compressor (p/n 38384 or 6038384 - p/n shown below) which is black in color. It is a thicker gauge metal (0.070”) than most similar spring compressors. The bare metal spring compressors available everywhere for $10 are thinner metal (0.059”) and deform permanently if you have to compress the spring significantly. (Ask me how I know this.)

The picture below shows the inferior 'silver' spring compressor next to the significantly better black Dorman spring compressor.
Trust me, I'm shocked to be recommending a Dorman product, but in this case, the black spring compressor was much better. It's still a 'consumer grade' tool and not one that you could use to perform dozens of spring R&Rs. For me, it was the difference between getting the job done and nearly taking my eye out with a launched spring.

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In my experience, I had to compress the door springs to a near bind (coil-to-coil contact) to get them into place. Your experience may vary but both driver and passenger door springs required nearly identical compression to sneak the spring into location.

If you attempt door spring replacement, good luck (and wear a face shield)!

 

[Scooterwrench]

Since I made a point to mention the Majestic brand rear window, here are a few more pictures of it…in the cold spring rain.

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

Some of the first orders of business with the truck back home was to re-install the exterior door handles and weatherstripping. For right or wrong, I bought most of this from LMC Truck (aka Long Motor Corp).

I've read a fair amount of vitriol related to LMC, and I get why. Many of the parts that I got from them (exterior door handles, in particular) are rather poor reproductions. Their prices are mediocre, and frankly, if I had purchased the cheapest possible knock-offs on Amazon, I probably would have gotten the same exact parts. So, shame on me. In the end, I chose the convenience of LMC’s site. To be fair, their site is very good.

The LMC-sourced door handles required some massaging to get the brand new Stratec (OE-supplier) lock barrels installed and retained. Be prepared to use a tiny file and possibly a Dremel with various grinders and wire brushes if you find yourself attempting this.

The plastic trim ring (gasket?) for the door handles was ill-fitting and required some modification on both side. The fitment of this trim ring was somewhat worse on the driver side. In fact, the fitment of the driver side handle to the door was worse in general, by a rather wide margin. Frankly, I’m unsatisfied with how they sit in the door, but they’re in now. Maybe I’ll refinish the OE parts and install those someday. (I would need to figure out a replacement for the plastic trim/gasket ring, though.)

Below is a picture that shows the fitment of the exterior driver door handle (left) compared to the passenger door handle. The passenger side does not sit properly (nominally flush) with the door skin on the bottom edge. The driver side handle does not sit properly in/on the door along any edge, as you can see in the picture.

You must be registered for see images attach

The LMC-supplied weather stripping and rubber bits, while different than OE, don’t seem awful. The exterior belt line seal on the window did require some trimming and notching to make it fit right, but that was all pretty straight forward.

Also on the topic of doors...
The body shop did install the new hinge bushings and pins that I provided while installing the 1991 doors…but they did not re-install the door springs. This is probably because the driver side roller pins was badly mangled. I had forgotten this along the way. (Shame on me for waiting 3 years between dismantling the truck and having the body work done.) So, after the truck was painted, I hacked out the OE roller pins and installed the Cunningham Machine roller pin setup. It went together nicely after I massaged the original roller pins out. In hindsight, I should have installed a nice stainless steel button head cap screw rather than the zinc plated bolt they provide. (Free suggestion for an upgrade, Cunningham!)

You must be registered for see images attach

Of course, I should have gone to the body shop when the doors were off and cut the old roller pin out before the truck was primed and painted. I wish the guys at the shop had thought to call me and say "you do know that the roller pin(s) on the door(s) are all jacked up, right…?"

However, since I have some paint touch-up to do anyway, this is just par for the course and another learning experience.
With the new roller pin, and cam arm installed, I turned my attention to the actual door spring. That was an adventure...

If you’re going to attempt replacing the door springs with consumer-grade tools…it sorta sucks. My strong recommendation is – at a minimum – to buy the Dorman door spring compressor (p/n 38384 or 6038384 - p/n shown below) which is black in color. It is a thicker gauge metal (0.070”) than most similar spring compressors. The bare metal spring compressors available everywhere for $10 are thinner metal (0.059”) and deform permanently if you have to compress the spring significantly. (Ask me how I know this.)

The picture below shows the inferior 'silver' spring compressor next to the significantly better black Dorman spring compressor.
Trust me, I'm shocked to be recommending a Dorman product, but in this case, the black spring compressor was much better. It's still a 'consumer grade' tool and not one that you could use to perform dozens of spring R&Rs. For me, it was the difference between getting the job done and nearly taking my eye out with a launched spring.

You must be registered for see images attach

In my experience, I had to compress the door springs to a near bind (coil-to-coil contact) to get them into place. Your experience may vary but both driver and passenger door springs required nearly identical compression to sneak the spring into location.

If you attempt door spring replacement, good luck (and wear a face shield)!

Thanks for the heads up on that spring tool. I'm going to have to replace the rollers in my door detents in the near future,they pop like double tapping a .22 short.