Crank pulley sticks out past all other accessories

[LosingNirvana]

I bought this truck, 92 C1500 305 TBI, last week Monday. It's great except for this issue. I noticed, when I was looking it over while it was running, the water pump pulley wobbling and the belt wasn't on the crank pulley all the way. I figured it was just because of the water pump bearing being bad, and it was so I replaced the water pump and fan clutch. After putting it together, the moment I turned it over the belt came back to ride on the back of the crank pulley. I've measured the balancer and pulleys and they are correct from the information I can find and measuring against ones at work. Still I replaced the balancer tonight and have it fully seated, and while it's better, it still needs to go back some. I can't find any kind of shorter pulleys for this other than an under drive pulley which only would change the diameter. It's between 1/4 and 3/8 out past everything else.

I'm stumped.. I have no idea how it got this way. I don't know how long it's been like this. It's very odd, I never would have thought I'd see something like this and someone before me didn't notice when they put it together. I assume the vortec and TBI engines have the same accessory brackets, I only bring that up incase they are different and maybe they used later brackets for R134A conversion. Only other thing I can think of at this point is to buy aluminum spacers to put behind everything else to move them out. I'd like to not do that if I don't have to. Maybe fresh eyes can help me see what my tired and frustrated eyes are missing. I'd really appreciate it.

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[rebelyell]

L31 & L30 & L35 Vortec damper has a shorter snout (than prior years) because those have a reluctor (for crank position sensor) sandwiched between snout and crank sprocket. Reluctor about 1/4" thick. Bracketry for front drive designed to fit. Dunno what differences (if any) between Vortec & TBI. The perspective of your lens doesn't help me at all; perhaps it helps others? I reference all the above only because it seems your discrepancy about same as reluctor width. Coinkydink ? dunno ?
Perhaps ya have a long snout damper Plus a reluctor and that causes pulley to extend too far ? dunno ?

 

[someotherguy]

I assume the vortec and TBI engines have the same accessory brackets, I only bring that up incase they are different and maybe they used later brackets for R134A conversion.

The TBI and Vortec accessory brackets are significantly different for several reasons (they don't support the same accessories, the A/C compressor and alternator types being the most obvious) and I can see from your pic you unquestionably have the TBI brackets.

When most people convert from R12 to R134a on these trucks the usual path is to use conversion fittings on the existing setup, leaving the R4 "pancake" compressor in place. Some use similar-year parts (1994) which are the same basic design but already have the R134a service ports in place as 1994 was the first year for R134a, yet still TBI engine, R4 compressor, etc.

Sorry I don't know what is causing the issue on your truck but at least hopes that helps rule out some of the possibilities you were wondering about.

Richard

 

[scott2093]

The water pump pulley is connected to the fan ...the crank pulley is under it and is ribbed? Are we looking at things right? If the belt didn't fit the crank pulley, that would mean it's riding on the outside of the ribs, not on the pulley and would get tangled up on first start ...a mess....

My power steering pump pulley sits flush with the power steering pump snout iirc. Not sure why yours looks different but, ,the power steering pulley and crank pulley should be even with each other.... A straight edge across 4 points on them.....

something not right for sure unless I'm not understanding....

My 93 has the crank bolt washer that sits inside the crank pulley, how is yours?

 

[1998_K1500_Sub]

It's between 1/4 and 3/8 out past everything else.

When I zoom in on your picture, I can definitely see the crank pulley in the background sticking out a bit (.25”+), beyond the PS pulley and water pump pulley in the foreground.

They should all be in the same plane, but evidently are not.

Since it’s unlikely that your other pulleys are misaligned, I assume your crank pulley is too far extended. You already came to the same conclusion.



Is there anything on the crank snout that’s preventing the harmonic dampener from seating fully?

Are you using a proper tool w/ thrust bearing to seat the dampener? (not just cranking it down with the center bolt… yeah, I’ve done it)

When in doubt, get out the measuring tools and confirm all relevant dimensions of the crank snout and dampener.

What’s the engine’s history? Original or other? Or no clue?

 

[Erik the Awful]

If you have the Vortec plastic timing cover, you might have the reluctor wheel under it, pushing the balancer forward. If you have the metal TBI timing cover, the reluctor can't fit under it and the problem is something else.

 

[1998_K1500_Sub]

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Is it just me or does that fan look odd?

Look at the curvature on the blades. That ain’t right.

Is it installed backwards on the clutch? That’s how it look to me.

Flip it over and it’ll move air much better.

Also…

- where’s the upper fan shroud? Did you remove it to work on this issue?

- what’s that hardline, with a length of plastic wire loom on it, doing for you, it seems out of place?

 

[LosingNirvana]

When I zoom in on your picture, I can definitely see the crank pulley in the background sticking out a bit (.25”+), beyond the PS pulley and water pump pulley in the foreground.

They should all be in the same plane, but evidently are not.

Since it’s unlikely that your other pulleys are misaligned, I assume your crank pulley is too far extended. You already came to the same conclusion.



Is there anything on the crank snout that’s preventing the harmonic dampener from seating fully?

Are you using a proper tool w/ thrust bearing to seat the dampener? (not just cranking it down with the center bolt… yeah, I’ve done it)

When in doubt, get out the measuring tools and confirm all relevant dimensions of the crank snout and dampener.

What’s the engine’s history? Original or other? Or no clue?

I used a harmonic balancer install tool, I went until it bottomed out. Engine seems very original apart from having the oil pan gasket replaced. I don't think anything on the front was messed with until I got it last week.

If you have the Vortec plastic timing cover, you might have the reluctor wheel under it, pushing the balancer forward. If you have the metal TBI timing cover, the reluctor can't fit under it and the problem is something else.

I will check that.

Is it just me or does that fan look odd?

Look at the curvature on the blades. That ain’t right.

Is it installed backwards on the clutch? That’s how it look to me.

Flip it over and it’ll move air much better.

Also…

- where’s the upper fan shroud? Did you remove it to work on this issue?

- what’s that hardline, with a length of plastic wire loom on it, doing for you, it seems out of place?

Someone had pointed that out. I must have put it on backwards when I did the pump and fan clutch. I can flip it around, although it hasn't caused the truck to run hot. I put 600 miles on it last week Friday and it stayed between 160-200 the whole time, it was super hot that day too. The fan shroud was off while I installed the new balancer and pulley. The hard-line I think is Pcv, it goes behind the alternator to the intake somewhere.

 

[1998_K1500_Sub]

I used a harmonic balancer install tool, I went until it bottomed out.

AFAIK, "bottomed-out" means...

- the dampener snout seated against the shoulder on the crank snout, or (in the case of a Vortec) a device installed on the crank snout which in turn bottoms on the shoulder,

or

- the crank snout seated against a shoulder, or burr, or something in the dampener

SOMETHING, somewhere, is preventing the dampener from attaining the proper depth for this application.

OR, something's just amiss... e.g., the dampener or crankshaft is mis-machined or incorrect for this application, or the pulley isn't right (you seem to have covered this), or the pulley has a shim b/t it and the dampener.

IMHO it's time to start making some measurements, close inspections and comparisons to specs to determine what's amiss.

 

[rebelyell]

1. Crank sprocket seats against shoulder (aka radius aka fillet) of crank's snout.
2. Prior to vortec, damper snout seats/butts against crank sprocket.
3. With vortec, reluctor butts against crank sprocket Then damper snout seats against reluctor.